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Forums - Gaming Discussion - IGN: Why DVD's better than Blu-Ray....

heruamon on 19 March 2009

Wow...this post is making me VG$ rich! Please keep up the arguements...

As much as some might want to spin it...brd, like ps3, was suppose to take over the electronic world...they were all but crowned for victory. Sure, they aren't dead yet, but the absolutely terrible state of Sony's books, shows how much they had hope to ride the ps3+brd combo into the future. Are they dead...no...but in 2 years, Nintendo will have a console out to delvier HD, and M$ will probably follow a year later...sony will still be telling us about that 10-year plan.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

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Ascended_Saiyan3 on 19 March 2009
twesterm said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
twesterm said:
Megadude said:
Upscaled DVD looks grainey on my LCD. Some people say they can't tell the difference. Some people cant tell the difference between a bird and a dildo. They are blind.

@ Twesterm: What's with the agenda? Banning people for talking about RROD, calling people fanboys because they enjoy bluray? kk

 

Agenda?  If you want to talk about your ban, PM me or naz, no need to bring it up here. 

And why would I call people fanboys for liking BluRay?  I myself like BluRay and even said so above if you had bothered reading the posts (it even says it in the first sentence of my first post).  The people that I did say have fanboy blinders are the ones that refuse to acknowledge that BluRay does have its fair share of flaws.

  • Price.  It's more expensive and only marginally better in many peoples eyes
  • It's not as portable.  While you might have one BluRay player you probably have many things that play DVD'a
  • Up-conversion.  To people that aren't trained to see the high amount of detail they don't see or care about the difference between an upscaped DVD and a BluRay 1080p movie.
  • Not all movies are available.  If someone is going to buy a BluRay player they probably want to watch the movies they want.  If the movies they want aren't coming out for it or the older movies they might want aren't released on BluRay, what is their incentive to spend the money?

 

Most of those were arguments for VHS over DVD (see links in my post above).  What happened in time, though?

BTW, what do you mean "trained to see the high amounts of detail"?  That's ridiculous!  The AVERAGE human eyes sees about 9 to 10 MILLION pixels.  Blu-ray is 2 million pixels.  DVD is 345K pixels.  So, that argument of yours is only for the misinformed.

 

 

So you want to bring up VHS to DVD and those points then?

  • Price-- DVD's are not just marginally better to the average person than VHS, they are astronomically better.  No rewindings, greatly improved quality that anyone can see, more space, chapter skipping, menu's, more durable.  It's a huge improvement in every way over VHS.   It was very much worth the price difference.
  • Portability-- True, DVD devices were more just like BluRay devices are more today but portability wasn't an issue then.  You didn't have a VHS player in your gaming system, computer, and in the 10 Tv's in your house.  You could buy one DVD player and be good and not really worry about it.
  • Not All Movies available-- Two years after DVD hit main stream every movie was coming out on DVD.  I'll be nice though and give this point, though with the other points, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

And the training comment, "hardcore" gamers look for things like high resolution, your "girlfriend" doesn't.  Those people who don't normally look for those things aren't going to see them.  It would help if you actually read all of a post before commenting on it.

DVD were NOT more durable than VHS (that's crazy talk).  However, Blu-ray is MUCH more durable than DVD.

Here is the funny part about the 1st sentence in your "Price" section.  You say the picture quality was ASTRONOMICALLY better from VHS to DVD (272,160 pixels to 345,600 pixels).  However, you want to say the picture quality from DVD to Blu-ray (345,600 pixels to 2,073,600 pixels) is not greater?!  That's crazy talk by ALL accounts!  You can't have it both ways.

All NEW Hollywood blockbuster movie hit Blu-ray since the 2 year mark (about 6 months after HD DVD was defeated).  The only exceptions are movie shot with a low rez camera (which makes perfect sense).

Portability is sometime that came LATER with DVD.  The same is expected with Blu-ray.  Car players have been in the works, if it's not already out.  Why can't people understand that these things take TIME (like ALL things)?

Some people just don't know how to describe what they are seeing.  Most "regular Joes" would just describe it as being "clearer" than other movies.  That doesn't mean they have to "look" for it.  They just need to know the terms to describe what they are seeing.  Nothing more.

 



Khuutra on 20 March 2009

Ascended_Saiyan, I should hope it is clear by this point that twesterm means that picture quality is the smallest part of how DVDs improved over VHS.



Gippon on 20 March 2009

This would appear to be a PS3 vs 360 war with a different front on it. I notice that PS3 users are agreeing that it is going to take off and will effectively become the next DVD, while the 360 users are against that idea arguing that direct downloads with no physical medium will be the next step...

Who knows, but if history repeats itself then Blu-ray would become the format of choice over the next 5 - 10 years. Eventually direct downloads will kill all physical disc formats IMO, but right now I think that Blu-ray will act as a stepping stone towards this.



PSN: Gippon

twesterm on 20 March 2009
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
twesterm said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
twesterm said:
Megadude said:
Upscaled DVD looks grainey on my LCD. Some people say they can't tell the difference. Some people cant tell the difference between a bird and a dildo. They are blind.

@ Twesterm: What's with the agenda? Banning people for talking about RROD, calling people fanboys because they enjoy bluray? kk

 

Agenda?  If you want to talk about your ban, PM me or naz, no need to bring it up here. 

And why would I call people fanboys for liking BluRay?  I myself like BluRay and even said so above if you had bothered reading the posts (it even says it in the first sentence of my first post).  The people that I did say have fanboy blinders are the ones that refuse to acknowledge that BluRay does have its fair share of flaws.

  • Price.  It's more expensive and only marginally better in many peoples eyes
  • It's not as portable.  While you might have one BluRay player you probably have many things that play DVD'a
  • Up-conversion.  To people that aren't trained to see the high amount of detail they don't see or care about the difference between an upscaped DVD and a BluRay 1080p movie.
  • Not all movies are available.  If someone is going to buy a BluRay player they probably want to watch the movies they want.  If the movies they want aren't coming out for it or the older movies they might want aren't released on BluRay, what is their incentive to spend the money?

 

Most of those were arguments for VHS over DVD (see links in my post above).  What happened in time, though?

BTW, what do you mean "trained to see the high amounts of detail"?  That's ridiculous!  The AVERAGE human eyes sees about 9 to 10 MILLION pixels.  Blu-ray is 2 million pixels.  DVD is 345K pixels.  So, that argument of yours is only for the misinformed.

 

 

So you want to bring up VHS to DVD and those points then?

  • Price-- DVD's are not just marginally better to the average person than VHS, they are astronomically better.  No rewindings, greatly improved quality that anyone can see, more space, chapter skipping, menu's, more durable.  It's a huge improvement in every way over VHS.   It was very much worth the price difference.
  • Portability-- True, DVD devices were more just like BluRay devices are more today but portability wasn't an issue then.  You didn't have a VHS player in your gaming system, computer, and in the 10 Tv's in your house.  You could buy one DVD player and be good and not really worry about it.
  • Not All Movies available-- Two years after DVD hit main stream every movie was coming out on DVD.  I'll be nice though and give this point, though with the other points, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

And the training comment, "hardcore" gamers look for things like high resolution, your "girlfriend" doesn't.  Those people who don't normally look for those things aren't going to see them.  It would help if you actually read all of a post before commenting on it.

DVD were NOT more durable than VHS (that's crazy talk).  However, Blu-ray is MUCH more durable than DVD.

Here is the funny part about the 1st sentence in your "Price" section.  You say the picture quality was ASTRONOMICALLY better from VHS to DVD (272,160 pixels to 345,600 pixels).  However, you want to say the picture quality from DVD to Blu-ray (345,600 pixels to 2,073,600 pixels) is not greater?!  That's crazy talk by ALL accounts!  You can't have it both ways.

All NEW Hollywood blockbuster movie hit Blu-ray since the 2 year mark (about 6 months after HD DVD was defeated).  The only exceptions are movie shot with a low rez camera (which makes perfect sense).

Portability is sometime that came LATER with DVD.  The same is expected with Blu-ray.  Car players have been in the works, if it's not already out.  Why can't people understand that these things take TIME (like ALL things)?

Some people just don't know how to describe what they are seeing.  Most "regular Joes" would just describe it as being "clearer" than other movies.  That doesn't mean they have to "look" for it.  They just need to know the terms to describe what they are seeing.  Nothing more.

 

 

Did you even bother reading my posts or are you too busy waving your arms?  I'll say it one more time and then I'll just ignore you every time after that when you start waving your arms and ignoring actual points I made.

  • Disc media is much more durable than tape media, I don't know how else to put that.  VHS movies are rarely clear and often have something funny with them and are often dirty.  DVD's are simple to keep clean and ones I bought nearly 10 years ago work jut as well as they did today, that is rarely the case with VHS movies.
  • I am not talking resolution, I don't give a crap about resolution at the moment.  Nowhere have I even hinted at talking about that.  I'll even bold this so hopefully it will stick-- I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT RESOLUTION AND PIXELS WHEN TALKING ABOUT QUALITY FROM VHS TO DVD.  Do you ever remember having to play with tracking on a DVD?  No, of course not.  None of the many issues that come with VHS tapes comes with DVD's and that's what I'm talking about.  That was a huge thing.
  • I admitted I was off about the new releases comment.
  • Portability-- If you had bothered reading my post, it just wasn't a common thing for people to have VHS players everywhere.  That wasn't an issue then.  Today, it's common for most household to have multiple ways to play DVD's.  BluRay players are expensive so it is not common for people to have more than one.  That means if you buy a BluRay movie then you can only take advantage of one player.  It is going to be a long time until the average family will have multiple ways to play BluRay movies.
  • You could not imagine how many "regular joes" I know that just don't see the difference or just don't care about the difference.  Outside of techy people or super AV video, most people don't care about the difference between an upscaled DVD and a 1080p movie.  A lot of older people (lets say 35+) don't see and don't understand the difference.

So yeah, BluRay still has a long way to go.  Just like I said earlier, I like my BluRay movies and I buy them when I can but people shouldn't be so resistant to the idea that BluRay still has many negatives and it is not nearly as large as a jump as VHS to DVD was.



 

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nitekrawler1285 on 20 March 2009

Sounds to me like people are judging the format a little harshly in it's infancy. It took a LONG while for DVD to catch on too. For about 4 to 5 years people complained that they were too expensive(players and writers), that most people couldn't tell the difference(my mother still watches and purchases VHS to this day). then came price drops and the matrix to clearly show the world what having an amazing resolution with extra space could do for you.

P.S. what negatives are there other than the price which will be rectified in 2 years or so?



FinalEvangelion on 20 March 2009

In Blu-ray's current situation, its now doing well enough to keep warranting releases. Hollywood studios are in full throttle in releasing their back catalog already. enough people think its a good enough of an improvement that it will stay on the market for a while. Whether it will take over DVD or not is another thing. I think BD and Downloads will be able to share the market for quite a while. I guess that is too non-fanboy of an outlook for most of the people here. It's either BD taking over or BD dying by dawn. Always absolutism is the way of the fanboy. Anyway, it's already way ahead as a movie format than LD or UMD could have done.



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

megaman79 on 20 March 2009

No one cares about Blue Ray. That should indicate the potential success of HD movies pretty quickly shouldn't it?



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

Ascended_Saiyan3 on 20 March 2009
twesterm said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
twesterm said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
twesterm said:
Megadude said:
Upscaled DVD looks grainey on my LCD. Some people say they can't tell the difference. Some people cant tell the difference between a bird and a dildo. They are blind.

@ Twesterm: What's with the agenda? Banning people for talking about RROD, calling people fanboys because they enjoy bluray? kk

 

Agenda?  If you want to talk about your ban, PM me or naz, no need to bring it up here. 

And why would I call people fanboys for liking BluRay?  I myself like BluRay and even said so above if you had bothered reading the posts (it even says it in the first sentence of my first post).  The people that I did say have fanboy blinders are the ones that refuse to acknowledge that BluRay does have its fair share of flaws.

  • Price.  It's more expensive and only marginally better in many peoples eyes
  • It's not as portable.  While you might have one BluRay player you probably have many things that play DVD'a
  • Up-conversion.  To people that aren't trained to see the high amount of detail they don't see or care about the difference between an upscaped DVD and a BluRay 1080p movie.
  • Not all movies are available.  If someone is going to buy a BluRay player they probably want to watch the movies they want.  If the movies they want aren't coming out for it or the older movies they might want aren't released on BluRay, what is their incentive to spend the money?

 

Most of those were arguments for VHS over DVD (see links in my post above).  What happened in time, though?

BTW, what do you mean "trained to see the high amounts of detail"?  That's ridiculous!  The AVERAGE human eyes sees about 9 to 10 MILLION pixels.  Blu-ray is 2 million pixels.  DVD is 345K pixels.  So, that argument of yours is only for the misinformed.

 

 

So you want to bring up VHS to DVD and those points then?

  • Price-- DVD's are not just marginally better to the average person than VHS, they are astronomically better.  No rewindings, greatly improved quality that anyone can see, more space, chapter skipping, menu's, more durable.  It's a huge improvement in every way over VHS.   It was very much worth the price difference.
  • Portability-- True, DVD devices were more just like BluRay devices are more today but portability wasn't an issue then.  You didn't have a VHS player in your gaming system, computer, and in the 10 Tv's in your house.  You could buy one DVD player and be good and not really worry about it.
  • Not All Movies available-- Two years after DVD hit main stream every movie was coming out on DVD.  I'll be nice though and give this point, though with the other points, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

And the training comment, "hardcore" gamers look for things like high resolution, your "girlfriend" doesn't.  Those people who don't normally look for those things aren't going to see them.  It would help if you actually read all of a post before commenting on it.

DVD were NOT more durable than VHS (that's crazy talk).  However, Blu-ray is MUCH more durable than DVD.

Here is the funny part about the 1st sentence in your "Price" section.  You say the picture quality was ASTRONOMICALLY better from VHS to DVD (272,160 pixels to 345,600 pixels).  However, you want to say the picture quality from DVD to Blu-ray (345,600 pixels to 2,073,600 pixels) is not greater?!  That's crazy talk by ALL accounts!  You can't have it both ways.

All NEW Hollywood blockbuster movie hit Blu-ray since the 2 year mark (about 6 months after HD DVD was defeated).  The only exceptions are movie shot with a low rez camera (which makes perfect sense).

Portability is sometime that came LATER with DVD.  The same is expected with Blu-ray.  Car players have been in the works, if it's not already out.  Why can't people understand that these things take TIME (like ALL things)?

Some people just don't know how to describe what they are seeing.  Most "regular Joes" would just describe it as being "clearer" than other movies.  That doesn't mean they have to "look" for it.  They just need to know the terms to describe what they are seeing.  Nothing more.

 

 

Did you even bother reading my posts or are you too busy waving your arms?  I'll say it one more time and then I'll just ignore you every time after that when you start waving your arms and ignoring actual points I made.

  • Disc media is much more durable than tape media, I don't know how else to put that.  VHS movies are rarely clear and often have something funny with them and are often dirty.  DVD's are simple to keep clean and ones I bought nearly 10 years ago work jut as well as they did today, that is rarely the case with VHS movies.
  • I am not talking resolution, I don't give a crap about resolution at the moment.  Nowhere have I even hinted at talking about that.  I'll even bold this so hopefully it will stick-- I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT RESOLUTION AND PIXELS WHEN TALKING ABOUT QUALITY FROM VHS TO DVD.  Do you ever remember having to play with tracking on a DVD?  No, of course not.  None of the many issues that come with VHS tapes comes with DVD's and that's what I'm talking about.  That was a huge thing.
  • I admitted I was off about the new releases comment.
  • Portability-- If you had bothered reading my post, it just wasn't a common thing for people to have VHS players everywhere.  That wasn't an issue then.  Today, it's common for most household to have multiple ways to play DVD's.  BluRay players are expensive so it is not common for people to have more than one.  That means if you buy a BluRay movie then you can only take advantage of one player.  It is going to be a long time until the average family will have multiple ways to play BluRay movies.
  • You could not imagine how many "regular joes" I know that just don't see the difference or just don't care about the difference.  Outside of techy people or super AV video, most people don't care about the difference between an upscaled DVD and a 1080p movie.  A lot of older people (lets say 35+) don't see and don't understand the difference.

So yeah, BluRay still has a long way to go.  Just like I said earlier, I like my BluRay movies and I buy them when I can but people shouldn't be so resistant to the idea that BluRay still has many negatives and it is not nearly as large as a jump as VHS to DVD was.

To prove that VHS tapes are MORE durable than DVDs, slide both across the pavement and try to play them.  The one that plays is more durable.  I can't tell you how many times I would DREAD opening a DVD order shipment or DVD from the store that's rattling!  You just KNOW that DVD is scratched to hell!  You didn't have that concern with VHS and you don't have that concern with Blu-ray.  BTW, auto-tracking was implemented on VHS players YEARS before DVD came out.

VHS wasn't as portable as DVD or was it that the VHS portability wasn't that popular?  VHS could be viewed on camcorders and those camcorders could be hooked up to portable radio/TVs, etc.  There were also, VHS players in cars.  I vote for VHS portability just not being as popular.

I know MOSTLY people older than 60.  They ALL see the difference between DVD and Blu-ray (including my father that's legally blind without his glasses).  These people have a hard time with the remote controls for their TVs!  I believe I have you beat by a good margin.  BTW, those people are almost ALWAYS the last to adopt a new technology.  They are the same people that were last in adopting DVD over VHS.  It will most likely be the same for them this time.

Also, along with durability over DVD, VHS has the ability to skip the FBI Warning and other such scenes.  VHS, also, still has that advantage over Blu-ray.

 



Ascended_Saiyan3 on 20 March 2009
megaman79 said:
No one cares about Blue Ray. That should indicate the potential success of HD movies pretty quickly shouldn't it?

I guess 12% of the total disc based video market, in the US, is...nobody, huh?  Boy, this is getting quite ridiculous.

Here is Europe's player adoption rate and future projection.