SquareEnix continues to make an Ass out of itself.

S.T.A.G.E.

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S.T.A.G.E. on 05 March 2009

Jordahn said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Jordahn said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Pristine20 said:
The numbers are pretty good considering the x360's performance in Japan. M$ probably paid the differences anyway. M$ $$$ is $$$ all the same.

This is exactly what i've been saying. +1

Exactly. it's pretty sad when a publisher has to accept a cash incentive to make a game instead of having to compete for the comsumers by making a quality product. And even with Microsoft's cash incentives, SE are still in financial trouble probably because they sacrificed quality.

In the end i'm happy SE made some sort of profit. Really out of all truth and honesty they needed it. With the money MS gave SE they could've made a quality product (And you know it), but shit happens. SE aren't in financial trouble right now. FFXIII and Versus will do the trick, trust me.

Not really because I'm not the subjective type. Because if they COULD have, than they should have. It's that simple. They didn't because they decided not to put in the effort, or they just don't have the ability. And SE did report a less than expected earnings while the economy worldwide is still on a downward spiral. Conventional widsom, serve the consumer first.

The bold is the key point. Never the less MS still got pretty good JRPG's on their side. The funding for FFXIII is going to be like a stab wound for SE. They are damn lucky MS has shelled out some cash.

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S.T.A.G.E. on 05 March 2009

ookaze said:
Fortunately I distanced myself from the FF series. I'm not waiting them eagerly anymore since IX.
That's why I could wait years before playing X and XII.
Square Enix has started destroying its brand, and are on the process of destroying their customer base.
It looks pretty obvious to me that their fanbase is shrinking fast, and it's accelerated by westernizing their games and putting them on XB360, thus destroying their fanbase in Japan, which is their biggest market.
When they finally realized their main market was shrinking, instead of helping it like Nintendo did, they left their fanbase in the dust and fled to try to cater exclusively to western audience.

Fortunately Yuji Horii still has a hand on Dragon Quest, which is the sole JRPG from SE that has a chance of surviving this disaster of SE on this generation of home consoles.
If it wasn't for the DS, JRPG fans could start to weep.

What's alarming, is that the situation is proof that the main advantage of the HD consoles, which is HD, is actually no advantage at all, as it doesn't help sell more games. Stupid decisions after stupid decisions means their series are quickly declining. The rate is just alarming. Star Ocean should not have dropped like a rock like that.
Well, I'm amused at the reversal though. I remember people touting SO as a huge series in Japan, citing the last one, and the one before.
Unless the fanbase doubled in the USA, the series is just crashing hard. And I doubt the fanbase doubled in the USA, especially in the USA where the audience of XB360 is full of people ready to call gay anything that has a bit of vibrant colors, and are then unable to even touch the box, being so insecure as they are.

This is the kind of crashing and burning that I always feared for FFXIII (even if it will still sell millions).

The effect of all that will be far worse long term though. Basically, SE is now very unreliable.
I think their brand is in the toilet. They even put their unreliability on Dragon Quest. I guess as soon as they realised Dragon Quest would steal the thunder of the flagship FF series, they started destroying it so that FF stays above.
I bet that won't be enough.

Please...Japan chose to respond to the Wii of their own accord. SE didn't lose the fanbase by turning their back on their consumer base. Many games on the PS2 lost Japans interest after a while. Towards the end of the PS2's lifetime before the 360 debut sales were quite stale world wide. When FFXIII comes out Japan will respond.

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Dgc1808 on 05 March 2009

MS has been working harder than SONY when it comes to 3rd Parties. Same goes for Nintendo. Both SONY and Nintendo just focus on their first party games. I just wish that SONY would get on the ball with producing more first Party jRPG's....

4 ≈ One

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Pristine20 on 05 March 2009

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Pristine20 said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Jordahn said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Pristine20 said:
The numbers are pretty good considering the x360's performance in Japan. M$ probably paid the differences anyway. M$ $$$ is $$$ all the same.

This is exactly what i've been saying. +1

Exactly. it's pretty sad when a publisher has to accept a cash incentive to make a game instead of having to compete for the comsumers by making a quality product. And even with Microsoft's cash incentives, SE are still in financial trouble probably because they sacrificed quality.

In the end i'm happy SE made some sort of profit. Really out of all truth and honesty they needed it. With the money MS gave SE they could've made a quality product (And you know it), but shit happens. SE aren't in financial trouble right now. FFXIII and Versus will do the trick, trust me. FFXIII will increase consoles on the 360 and the PS3. Versus will increase sales for the PS3. In the end....if you want my opinion, Sony owes SE. SE has given them great games.

I don't know about that part. Considering the fact that sony played a big part in saving the company after Sakaguchi's "great" movie, I'd call it a clean slate if not the other way around.

My reasoning for this is because SE chose Sony seeing their PSX as the perfect platform to project their titles. They ended up making a classic the first time around and continued to make great games like KH for the PS2. They are still making games featuring FFVII characters on the PSP. SE has done more than enough for Sony. Sorry man, but SE has given Sony far more than even Kojima himself.

The way you put it, it almost sounds like it was a parasitic relationship where S-E just kept on giving. S-E kept putting games on sony machines primarily because they believed that the games would perform best on those platforms. Some even say that sony moneyhatted FFvii (I don't believe this). However, I'm pretty sure that S-E paid less licensing fees than your average dev to release games on sony platforms. You really don't think S-E released a game like Dissidia on psp just because they wanted to help sony?

On sony's part, S-E did end up helping them even though it was exactly due to altruistic motives so I'd call it mutualism. However, when you add the fact that sony bailed Squaresoft out after the Spirits Within failed, the scale is basically tipped in sony's favor because that move seemed somewhat more altruistic. I'd still call it a clean slate though because a value can't really be placed on these things.

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S.T.A.G.E. on 05 March 2009

Pristine20 said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Pristine20 said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Jordahn said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Pristine20 said:
The numbers are pretty good considering the x360's performance in Japan. M$ probably paid the differences anyway. M$ $$$ is $$$ all the same.

This is exactly what i've been saying. +1

Exactly. it's pretty sad when a publisher has to accept a cash incentive to make a game instead of having to compete for the comsumers by making a quality product. And even with Microsoft's cash incentives, SE are still in financial trouble probably because they sacrificed quality.

In the end i'm happy SE made some sort of profit. Really out of all truth and honesty they needed it. With the money MS gave SE they could've made a quality product (And you know it), but shit happens. SE aren't in financial trouble right now. FFXIII and Versus will do the trick, trust me. FFXIII will increase consoles on the 360 and the PS3. Versus will increase sales for the PS3. In the end....if you want my opinion, Sony owes SE. SE has given them great games.

I don't know about that part. Considering the fact that sony played a big part in saving the company after Sakaguchi's "great" movie, I'd call it a clean slate if not the other way around.

My reasoning for this is because SE chose Sony seeing their PSX as the perfect platform to project their titles. They ended up making a classic the first time around and continued to make great games like KH for the PS2. They are still making games featuring FFVII characters on the PSP. SE has done more than enough for Sony. Sorry man, but SE has given Sony far more than even Kojima himself.

The way you put it, it almost sounds like it was a parasitic relationship where S-E just kept on giving. S-E kept putting games on sony machines primarily because they believed that the games would perform best on those platforms. Some even say that sony moneyhatted FFvii (I don't believe this). However, I'm pretty sure that S-E paid less licensing fees than your average dev to release games on sony platforms. You really don't think S-E released a game like Dissidia on psp just because they wanted to help sony?

I don't really see it as a parasitic relationship. I see it more as a relationship where SE pumps out more to roll the dice on profit. I agree with you when you say they believed that they put the games on Sony to best perform on those platforms. They left Nintendo to do this. Then they gave Nintendo the Crystal Chronicles (Wow). SE was the gift that kept on giving for Sony besides Rockstar and Konami as far as I see it.

On sony's part, S-E did end up helping them even though it was exactly due to altruistic motives so I'd call it mutualism. However, when you add the fact that sony bailed Squaresoft out after the Spirits Within failed, the scale is basically tipped in sony's favor because that move seemed somewhat more altruistic. I'd still call it a clean slate though because a value can't really be placed on these things.

SE funded Advent Children as well. I agree that they both made business decisions, but in the end SE provided more output. Sony has only partially funded their games. It's like an on and off funding, but I see your point.

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Barozi on 05 March 2009

Jordahn said:

Barozi said:

SickleSigh said:

Undying said:

Might as well post this.

Xbox 360
Lost Odyssey .91m
Blue Dragon .62m
The Last Remnant .58m
Infinite Undiscovery .46m
Tales of Vesperia .29m
Eternal Sonata .26m
Star Ocean: The Last Hope 0.17m (will go up drastically)
Enchanted Arms .14m
Phantasy Star Universe .10m
Spectral Force 3 .04m
Zoids Assault ~.02m
Operation Darkness .01m

PS3
Valkyria Chronicles .36m
White Knight Chronicles .33m (JP) (will go up)
Disgaea 3: Absence of Justice ~.21m
Enchanted Arms .16m
Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom .12m (JRPG?)
Eternal Sonata ~ .12m
X Edge .05m (JP) (will go up)

Wii
Pokemon Battle Revolution 1.30m
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors 0.59m
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn .40m
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World .36m
Dokapon Kingdom .08m
Rune Factory Frontier .04m
Opoona .04m
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time (JP) .04m (will go up)
Baroque ~.03m
Harulanaru Toki no Naka de 4 ~.01m (JP)

As you can see there is no better console this gen for JRPGs than the 360 unless your game is called pokemon.

Difference in marketing and publishers of Ps3 IPs and MS IPs is huge. VC was a new IP from sega with no marketing that managed to sell half of MS best RPG that had a great deal of advertising and hype. WKC was only released in Japan from Level 5, which are good RPG devs but not widely known.

It's a simple fact those games would sell a lot more on PS3 due to JP sales, theres no way arguing around that. Americas sales aren't as important in RPGs and with a name like SE the brand recognition brings in JP sales wether it sucks or not. I'm not sure what people are trying to argue here, fanboy or not you can't deny it would have a lot more sales and bring in a better profit from software if it were on Ps3.

Well I do. I bet Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon and probably even The Last Remnant & Infinite Undiscovery wouldn't to better if they were PS3 exclusives.

Now it's obvious that the PS3 version of TLR will lose against the 360 version, but even with a simultaniously release I think the 360 version would have won.

As long as the PS3 version becomes the better version (and it has been proven to go either way), it doesn't matter if it "looses
." And for a simultaniously release, SquareEnix sells more copies, and more gamers have access to the game without having to buy another console or just for the console of their choice. This is what gaming is about, need I remind some of you.

Why do you need to change the subject in the first sentence ?

Anyway this is serious business and we're not in Teletubbyland. SE won't release FFXIII on the 360 in Japan. *Oh noes they are so evil*

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ShadowSoldier on 05 March 2009