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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Consoles are this eras PCs

NiKKoM said:
You're so gonna be killed by Shio... xD *leaves thread quickly*

Didn't Shio implode when s/he claimed that Braid was a PC exclusive in 2009, because the 360 version of the game was released in 2008?



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It certainly seems that the guy who wrote that article has no idea of what this is all about. It's not about who develops the games - it's about what the games are like.

Oh, and lol @ the modding argument. Far Cry 2 (used as an example of a game that can be modded) is very restrictive in terms of modding. You can't modify the gameplay, you can't make single-player maps. All you can do is make very limited multiplayer maps. The same goes for LBP, although I'm not sure if that game even needs more. Still, a terrible argument.



@ shio
...only better on consoles?



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shio said:

PC is reeeaaallyyy dieing here!!! PC has never been big on sports games, so there no loss there.

I mean, you have to think before calling PC dead when PC has more games in development than all console combined - 70% of games are being developed on PC, only 43% are developed for consoles.

Dude, this is getting VERY old:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2339845,00.asp

PC Game Sales Plunge in 2008; Consoles Soar

Total sales of video game hardware, software and peripherals topped $22 billion in 2008, according to the Entertainment Software Association. Video-game sales reached $11.7 billion, a 22.9 percent increase over the prior year.

PC game revenue, however, dropped by 23 percent.

The numbers also painted a somewhat grim picture of the PC games market. PC game sales reached $701.4 million or 29.1 million units, while console sales were $8.9 billion or 189 million units. Portable software sales were $2.1 billion, or 79.5 million units.

 

Economic activity is NOT in PCs this day and age.  Yes, people produce, in abundance, certain niches, but consoles have more genres of games that people want to play.  That is reality.  Also, more MAJOR productions of games are there.

That is the reality, no matter how much you don't want to think about it.  Yes, PC gaming business is down from over $1 billion.  Your only argument is massive-multiplayer gamers.  And those are increasingly free products that designers hope will be supported with ad revenue.



richardhutnik said:
shio said:

PC is reeeaaallyyy dieing here!!! PC has never been big on sports games, so there no loss there.

I mean, you have to think before calling PC dead when PC has more games in development than all console combined - 70% of games are being developed on PC, only 43% are developed for consoles.

Dude, this is getting VERY old:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2339845,00.asp

PC Game Sales Plunge in 2008; Consoles Soar

Total sales of video game hardware, software and peripherals topped $22 billion in 2008, according to the Entertainment Software Association. Video-game sales reached $11.7 billion, a 22.9 percent increase over the prior year.

PC game revenue, however, dropped by 23 percent.

The numbers also painted a somewhat grim picture of the PC games market. PC game sales reached $701.4 million or 29.1 million units, while console sales were $8.9 billion or 189 million units. Portable software sales were $2.1 billion, or 79.5 million units.

 

Economic activity is NOT in PCs this day and age.  Yes, people produce, in abundance, certain niches, but consoles have more genres of games that people want to play.  That is reality.  Also, more MAJOR productions of games are there.

That is the reality, no matter how much you don't want to think about it.  Yes, PC gaming business is down from over $1 billion.  Your only argument is massive-multiplayer gamers.  And those are increasingly free products that designers hope will be supported with ad revenue.

wow, it's like every other week there's someone using NPD as a valid source of PC's health!!  Have you been living under a rock? The figures of PC's NPD retail have been debated over and over again, and those figures are meaningless - PC is transitioning to online, and even NPD's representatives said so themselves. In US, NPD estimated that PC makes more money in subscriptions than Retail, and if you add Digital Distribution, Advertisement, Microtransactions, etc... it completely dwarfs Retail.

DFC actually estimated that only 30% of PC's revenue was from Retail in 2007 - Today the difference should be even  greater. And PC's online is probably growing even faster than the console market: Steam grew 150% in 2007, and Online Gaming in China increased over 75% last year.

Consoles do not have "more genres". Where are the Simulation games? Adventure games? How many RPGs? And Strategy games? etc...



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Regarding part of the article:

Brain migration

When the Xbox brought PC features into the living room, some of the best PC game developers in the world eventually came along for the console-gaming ride. Their ranks read like a who's who in modern gaming of both developers and designers: Infinity Ward (Call of Duty), Epic (Gears of War), Bethesda (The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Fallout 3), Peter Molyneux (Fable), Bungie (Halo), Ken Levine (BioShock), and on and on. "If you look at who are the big-ticket console developers right now," says BioShock creator Levine of 2K Boston, "they're all people who cut their teeth in the PC space." These folks didn't come over to the console to make Mario knockoffs. They came to make the kinds of games they made-and still make-on the PC.

Is that why consoles are getting games that need installs, patches, and DLC that should have been included in the first place?  It seems like these guys are bringing the bad things along with the good.



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Senlis said:
Technically every game is a role playing game. Even in simcity you are playing the role of the mayor.

So, what is your role in Tetris?

http://black20.com/black20-trailer-park/tetris-movie

 

Well, not sure EVERY game has you playing a role, but videogames tend to allow role playing, even when that isn't the intent.

 



shio said:

wow, it's like every other week there's someone using NPD as a valid source of PC's health!!  Have you been living under a rock? The figures of PC's NPD retail have been debated over and over again, and those figures are meaningless - PC is transitioning to online, and even NPD's representatives said so themselves. In US, NPD estimated that PC makes more money in subscriptions than Retail, and if you add Digital Distribution, Advertisement, Microtransactions, etc... it completely dwarfs Retail.

DFC actually estimated that only 30% of PC's revenue was from Retail in 2007 - Today the difference should be even  greater. And PC's online is probably growing even faster than the console market: Steam grew 150% in 2007, and Online Gaming in China increased over 75% last year.

Consoles do not have "more genres". Where are the Simulation games? Adventure games? How many RPGs? And Strategy games? etc...

Any electronic device that supports programming, and is used a lot, will get games on it.  This goes for cell phones, and PCs.  It goes with the territory.  This being said, the reality is that the PC market is smaller, as a percentage, than the console gaming business.  This percentage is getting smaller over time, and the trend continues.  You are engaging in a severe case of rationalization to say it otherwise.  Now you question NPD and rationalize you are right.  If we were do a survey of 100 executives in the videogame industry and ask them who they would trust more for data to assist their decision making, NPD or shio from VGChartz, what percentage do you think would actually pick you?

Ok, let's look here at your last comment.  I spoke of genres.  It is interesting to notice where you stop.  Ok...

1. Simulations.  Ok, PCs have this, simply because the general audience isn't into them.  How big is the simulation market?  And I am NOT going to put flight sims into this category, as the 360 and PS3 are set to get them.  A game like Hawx, for example.  And the PC loses Microsoft's Flight Simulator, pulling the plug on the studio.

2. Adventure games.  I am able to play Myst III on my 360.  I have others also.  As far as this genre goes, it has been been assimulated by the action genre, so now we get "Action-Adventure": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action-adventure_game

And consoles have these, IN SPADES.  Consoles specialize in this.  Considering that text adventures and graphic adventures aren't large today, big production titles (these are the norm on consoles) won't touch them.  They will, however, use them.  Like in Prince of Persia, you have a rotate the platform puzzle, straight out of adventure games.  Half-Life even had this on the PC.  So, it isn't just consoles that have consumed this genre, it is all of videogames.

3. RPGs?  You want to count every garage game effort and multiplayer free web stuff?  If so, the Wii and PS3 can play these.  How do they sell on PCs?  I mean outside of what Blizzard does, which likely has about half of all PC game sales, and over 2/3 of the RPG market.  And want me to bring up JRPGs?

4. Strategy.  Ahh, one of the last niches left for PCs to be relevant, and own.  These games tend to make a jump on the DS.  Good you don't go RTS which is pretty much Blizzard again and their -Craft titles.  Other ones don't do well.  Interface issues have saved the PC from having RTS defect to consoles.

Let's add Puzzle games here as another last bastion on PC games, although they are making an increasing jump onto consoles now.  Flash Games in the past end on the console in the future, or the DS.  This is a wash at this point.

And this is about where we stop as far as it goes.  You are now at a place, when someone mentions any other genre of going, "BUT PCs have these to!"  In other words, VERY defensive.  Like, say Fighting games, and you will go, "But the PC is getting Street Fighter IV!"  And it is.  But that is about it.  No Tekken for you.  And don't get cute by hitting garage games, which then will make me get into Live Community games as a counterpoint.  That is a place I don't want to have to go.

So, let's look at other genres here:

1. Fighting games.  You get an occasional bone, as in Street Fighter IV.  Be thankful for that.

2. Action sports games.  How about football (American style)?  Let me know when this is coming out for the PC.  Want me to bring up Wii Sports and Wii games along the lines of these?  What is comparable on the PC?  Sports in general have all but abandoned the PC, at least high production value sports titles.

3. Arcade racers.  How many are due out new for 2009?  And I don't mean garage games either.

4. Gun games.  You know, where you use a gun accessory?

5. Mini-game/party game type games.  Games where you get a bunch of people together and play quick games.

 

Here you go, chew on the PC line up at Gamestop this coming year:

http://www.ebgames.com/browse/search.aspx?Ns=Sort_ETA|0&N=5+140&PerPage=50

 

And the 360 lineup:

http://www.ebgames.com/browse/search.aspx?Ns=Sort_ETA|0&N=5+133

 

And the Wii lineup:

http://www.ebgames.com/browse/search.aspx?Ns=Sort_ETA|0&N=5+138

 

 

 

 



theRepublic said:

Regarding part of the article:

Brain migration

When the Xbox brought PC features into the living room, some of the best PC game developers in the world eventually came along for the console-gaming ride. Their ranks read like a who's who in modern gaming of both developers and designers: Infinity Ward (Call of Duty), Epic (Gears of War), Bethesda (The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Fallout 3), Peter Molyneux (Fable), Bungie (Halo), Ken Levine (BioShock), and on and on. "If you look at who are the big-ticket console developers right now," says BioShock creator Levine of 2K Boston, "they're all people who cut their teeth in the PC space." These folks didn't come over to the console to make Mario knockoffs. They came to make the kinds of games they made-and still make-on the PC.

Is that why consoles are getting games that need installs, patches, and DLC that should have been included in the first place?  It seems like these guys are bringing the bad things along with the good.

PC gaming is now a proving ground for game developers.  Also, game development has gotten far more complext, requiring greater upfront costs, which results in bugs and so on happening.  It is becoming more and more like creating a movie, particularly on the top level.  And, in the case of movies, you even get bugs and bloopers that slip through.

 



@richardhutnik: I wouldn't say NPD's figures completely meaningless yet but they only count a small part of PC gaming anymore. Even NPD admits that most of the business is not made on retail anymore but they don't even estimate online revenue. NPD only counts retail revenue and that's it, even if online revenue would be several times bigger (which it already is). So even they admit that their figures are becoming worthless on PC side.