the reason the PS brandname is so strong in Europe is because the video game market didn't really develop in Europe until the playstation 1. Nintendo still has a strong brandname in the US and Japan, even Sega still has it, but neither had such a strong brand in Europe.

johnsobas said: the reason the PS brandname is so strong in Europe is because the video game market didn't really develop in Europe until the playstation 1. Nintendo still has a strong brandname in the US and Japan, even Sega still has it, but neither had such a strong brand in Europe.

 True, but the Wii is doing surprisingly well in Europe. Especially if you take into account the realtively poor sales of the N64 and the Gamecube. In the end though, 3-4 years down the line, I think the PS brand will dominate in Europe at least.

The PS3's biggest problem in Europe is going to be its price. European countries range from a little below the US and Japan in disposable income to a lot below the US and Japan while the PS3 is much more expensive than the PS2. An average US worker would have to work around 4-5 days to buy a PS3 but an average UK/German worker 8-9 days and a Portugese/Greek worker would have to do 14-15 days of work to buy a PS3. That's going to limit the potential market in continental Europe to a lot less than the PS2 (who at launch had workdays required to buy of roughly US-3, UK-6, Port.-9).

Didn't Microsoft also have a year headstart, so a year with no competition, and it's still only got 1 million ahead of the Xbox (which, when released was competing with the PS2 and Gamecube).

If it wasn't for Gears of War, I'd reckon that the 360 would currently be selling less than the Xbox was at this point in time.

I think it's pretty obvious that Microsoft would gain marketshare on the 360, and will continue to do so on the next iteration of the Xbox franchise.

@Mitsuhide: Xbox (360) doesn't do well in Europe, since basically it's impossible to have worse brand than Micro$oft has. It's well known, and therefore it ranks pretty high in brandname surveys.
I believe, that it doesn't sell in Japan (besides the X), because its shitty brand. Owning an Xbox (this is in Europe, and i believe in Japan also) is pretty much the same thing than driving a rusty 30 year old car, which smokes and barely run. You can have fun with it, but it's still a load of shit. If it breaks, it's even more fun. Also Xbox is propably the ugliest console ever made, so the name "Xbox" have negative affect on consumers.

A lot of people are planning on buying 360:s, but also a lot of people are planning to buy Wiis. And what i have noticed, the intrest in PS3 have been declining (in Europe that is). I can't say which one wins over another in Europe, PS3 or 360, since for example Italy is pretty much Sony only country, and Sony has established fanbase in Europe and people seem to be more intested in 360 at the moment. Then again, Wii is doing good and also Nintendo has established fanbase but in age group of 25+. Definately Wii is going to win Europe, but this is going to be the closest from JP, NA and Eu.

@Johnsobas: Basically the PSX was there at the right time, since gamemarkets was expanding fast, with or without Sony.

@Mummelmann: I don't think Wii is doing surprisingly good in Eu, if you compare how it's doing everywhere else. Nintendo has had so what problem, that many stores haven't been selling any Nintendo stuff in years, unlike Sony stuff, which is everywhere (there is happening a change in that matter). But Wii will win Europe, not with as big margin as Japan or USA, but still.

albionus said: The big question that can't be answered for several more years is whether the 360 is breaking out of the Xbox owner base. The 360 sold faster than the Xbox in its first year (when it was alone and already had an established brand) but is now below the Xbox's sales and is trending lower. The price cut may change that but we won't know for a few months.

Not true.. Other way arround actually.. First year the Xbox 1 was selling better, now the 360 is selling better and has now overtaken Xbox 1:

http://www.vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=XB®1=Japan&cons2=PS3®2=Japan&cons3=X360®3=Japan&align=1

In fact, 360 is selling more now after PS3 and the Wii are out, that it did before they came.

It is selling slowly, but they are going to do better than with Xbox 1.

albionus said: The PS3's biggest problem in Europe is going to be its price. European countries range from a little below the US and Japan in disposable income to a lot below the US and Japan while the PS3 is much more expensive than the PS2. An average US worker would have to work around 4-5 days to buy a PS3 but an average UK/German worker 8-9 days and a Portugese/Greek worker would have to do 14-15 days of work to buy a PS3. That's going to limit the potential market in continental Europe to a lot less than the PS2 (who at launch had workdays required to buy of roughly US-3, UK-6, Port.-9).

hum the big problem of the european market is not their income.... they earn more money than most people in the world if you convert the euro in any other currency..... the problem is the cost of life over there it's crazy high compare to US (I don't think japan is under but still) I mean look at the most expensive city in the world 80% of them are in europe new york is not even in the top 10 anymore.... we have a serious tax problem and everything is going up way to fast.... you have to realize that if you want to buy a 600€ PS it's like if you had to buy a 780$ PS in US.... and that's mostly due to tax and other indirect fees from social security etc etc.... put the PS at 461€ like it should be and you have sales going up.....

of course i'm talking about european countries like france UK germany, spain italy etc.... I mean the one doing the core of europe right now.... what you are saying is evident for countries like the eastern ones and other which still have to complete their integration.... but is like if you were comparing NA with SA....  

 

bdbdbd said: @Mitsuhide: Xbox (360) doesn't do well in Europe, since basically it's impossible to have worse brand than Micro$oft has. It's well known, and therefore it ranks pretty high in brandname surveys. I believe, that it doesn't sell in Japan (besides the X), because its shitty brand. Owning an Xbox (this is in Europe, and i believe in Japan also) is pretty much the same thing than driving a rusty 30 year old car, which smokes and barely run. You can have fun with it, but it's still a load of shit. If it breaks, it's even more fun. Also Xbox is propably the ugliest console ever made, so the name "Xbox" have negative affect on consumers. A lot of people are planning on buying 360:s, but also a lot of people are planning to buy Wiis. And what i have noticed, the intrest in PS3 have been declining (in Europe that is). I can't say which one wins over another in Europe, PS3 or 360, since for example Italy is pretty much Sony only country, and Sony has established fanbase in Europe and people seem to be more intested in 360 at the moment. Then again, Wii is doing good and also Nintendo has established fanbase but in age group of 25+. Definately Wii is going to win Europe, but this is going to be the closest from JP, NA and Eu. @Johnsobas: Basically the PSX was there at the right time, since gamemarkets was expanding fast, with or without Sony. @Mummelmann: I don't think Wii is doing surprisingly good in Eu, if you compare how it's doing everywhere else. Nintendo has had so what problem, that many stores haven't been selling any Nintendo stuff in years, unlike Sony stuff, which is everywhere (there is happening a change in that matter). But Wii will win Europe, not with as big margin as Japan or USA, but still.

 and it's exactly where I don't understand the market compare to any other market.... because MS has definitelly been  a better company in the VG industry for decades now (starting on PC) than Sony has ever been in electronic.... Sony is an average high priced brand on most of their market.... certainely not a high quality one..... I'm not bashing there I'm using facts.....

in VG MS has been there doing good products in harware with their sidewinder collection for years..... in video games with license like flight simulator, age of empire, the madness collection etc.... on the other side except on a couple markets like camcorders Sony has never been concidered by expert and benchmarkers as a top brand in term of quality/price and everybody who looks around knows that....  without talking about format war.... when was the last time Sony won one ???

 

and bashing MS software always made me laugh... I do hate their OS but I know why... most people in the world doesn't need anything more or different than what MS provide... and if they really wanted something else they can either go to apple or to the open source/ freeware side of the moon :P I mean nobody force you to buy a PC.... and nobody force you to keep MS software on it.... and if you don't know why you don't like it just STFU... I mean even me I'm running on XP and I don't like it but I don't need to have a debian or a free bsd running on my PC either like I use to do... I mean XP is largely enough for what I do... basecally internet a couple games and some stuff on adobe CS3 and office...... so yeah MS is providing what I need for what I do.... I hate to admit it it.... but it's the truth 

endimion said: albionus said: The PS3's biggest problem in Europe is going to be its price. European countries range from a little below the US and Japan in disposable income to a lot below the US and Japan while the PS3 is much more expensive than the PS2. An average US worker would have to work around 4-5 days to buy a PS3 but an average UK/German worker 8-9 days and a Portugese/Greek worker would have to do 14-15 days of work to buy a PS3. That's going to limit the potential market in continental Europe to a lot less than the PS2 (who at launch had workdays required to buy of roughly US-3, UK-6, Port.-9). hum the big problem of the european market is not their income.... they earn more money than most people in the world if you convert the euro in any other currency..... the problem is the cost of life over there it's crazy high compare to US (I don't think japan is under but still) I mean look at the most expensive city in the world 80% of them are in europe new york is not even in the top 10 anymore.... we have a serious tax problem and everything is going up way to fast.... you have to realize that if you want to buy a 600€ PS it's like if you had to buy a 780$ PS in US.... and that's mostly due to tax and other indirect fees from social security etc etc.... put the PS at 461€ like it should be and you have sales going up..... of course i'm talking about european countries like france UK germany, spain italy etc.... I mean the one doing the core of europe right now.... what you are saying is evident for countries like the eastern ones and other which still have to complete their integration.... but is like if you were comparing NA with SA....

What I did was compared the PPP which eliminated exchange rates and compares costs.  The average US income is $44k compared to richer western Europe- $30-32k and poorer western europe- $20k.  Factor in higher taxes and a more expensive PS3 and you get the greater amount of work required for Europeans to buy a PS3.  I'm aware of all the factors you  mentioned which is why I said disposable income.  Disposable income accounts for differring costs, taxes, and such.  I'm certain I'm not 100% on the spot since my calculations were simple but the general point is the same.

 

Voyager4DK said: albionus said: The big question that can't be answered for several more years is whether the 360 is breaking out of the Xbox owner base. The 360 sold faster than the Xbox in its first year (when it was alone and already had an established brand) but is now below the Xbox's sales and is trending lower. The price cut may change that but we won't know for a few months. Not true.. Other way arround actually.. First year the Xbox 1 was selling better, now the 360 is selling better and has now overtaken Xbox 1: http://www.vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=XB®1=Japan&cons2=PS3®2=Japan&cons3=X360®3=Japan&align=1 In fact, 360 is selling more now after PS3 and the Wii are out, that it did before they came. It is selling slowly, but they are going to do better than with Xbox 1.

First, I made a mistake, I meant the 360's sales are trending below its last year sales not the original Xbox.  Second, you're graph is of Japan only.  Third, a graph won't work because Other sales figures don't seem to be included for the Xbox yet.