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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo: "We aren't competing with Sony or Microsoft"

Outcast said:

Hello, noname2200. I have no idea who you are, but it seems you know me so I'll attempt to reply to your post in a way that would satisfy you.

Unfortunately for me, I've seen hundreds of you in my lifetime. Folks who stick stubbornly to their viewpoint, rather than taking the few seconds of thinking required to arrive at a better understanding of whatever situation they encounter, who prefer to brush off any opinion that doesn't match their own, rather than try to learn from others.

The good news for you is that you might someday become President of the United States!

Outcast said:

I have nothing to learn from this Malstrom. I imagine he has a few things to learn from me, however; I'd point him in the direction of a dictionary for a start. Maelstrom.

Witty! Well done on using a tired, ill-aimed joke that no one's ever heard before. But the real bonus points come from attempting an ad-hominem attack, rather than addressing the issue. You can copy-paste the above section here, if you wish.

Outcast said:

Perhaps you think that a nobody who starts a blog on the internet holds more sway and influence over Nintendo's strategy than a high ranking employee from the company.

I hope there are other options...

Outcast said:

Perhaps you think I'm wrong about taking the quote from the Nintendo employee, that they aren't competing with Sony and Microsoft, and daring to believe that that's what he actually meant.

Oh good, it IS multiple choice! 

Outcast said:

Perhaps you think some of the comments in this thread, that he meant something completely different to what he said are more valid than just quoting what he said.

Excellent. I choose this option. And why wouldn't I? After all, the head of Nintendo said this exact same thing before the Wii even launched, back in '05 or so. (You'd know this if you checked those links) This option makes the most sense, seeing as how it actually fits in neatly with the things Nintendo's been saying and doing since before the DS was launched (again, check those links).

So who to believe? An internet poster who's taking something literally when it obviously wasn't meant that way? (I'd say "putting words in Nintendo's mouth," but that's not what's happening here. "Only hearing what he wants to hear"? That sounds more accurate) Or do I go with Malstrom's explanation, when the latter's explanation makes a consistent sense? Decisions decisions...

Outcast said:

Perhaps you are the one that needs to do some thinking?

Always, my friend! After all, a man who stops thinking is just a waste of time. So I choose options C and D. But please try to join me for the thinking part. If you're feeling too rusty (which is understandable), feel free to take a moment and warm up. I'm willing to wait.

Outcast said:

 

Who knows.

Demonstrably, not you. But again, we can work on this.

 

 



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Outcast said:
HappySqurriel said:
Outcast said:
noname2200 said:
Outcast said:

I think we can take this as meaning the following:

Nintendo is not competing for the attention of hardcore gamers.
Nintendo is competing for the attention of non-gamers.

Sony and Microsoft are competing for the attention of hardcore gamers.
Sony and Microsoft are not (this is changing slowly) competing for the attention of non-gamers.

Therefore they are not directly in competition in so far as target audience.

A serious question for you, Outcast: Do you actually want to learn what's going on, or are you just hellbent on making a fool of yourself? If it's the latter (and I suspect it is) then carry on, as you clearly don't need any help.

But in the unlikely event that it's the former, and in the even more unlikely event that you can stomach reading several hours of work by someone whose viewpoint is antithetical to your own, then go read here and here, and start using your critical thinking skills. Note that you'll have to parse through some Nintendo cheerleading, and that not everything the man says is gospel, but it will point out for you why exactly you're completely wrong. And if you have any questions, direct them to SkyRender, RolStoppable, or one of several other members who have their heads screwed on straight. But this method you're employing does nothing for you.

Again though, I doubt learning is what you're after.

 

Hello, noname2200. I have no idea who you are, but it seems you know me so I'll attempt to reply to your post in a way that would satisfy you.

I have nothing to learn from this Malstrom. I imagine he has a few things to learn from me, however; I'd point him in the direction of a dictionary for a start. Maelstrom.

Perhaps you think that a nobody who starts a blog on the internet holds more sway and influence over Nintendo's strategy than a high ranking employee from the company. Perhaps you think I'm wrong about taking the quote from the Nintendo employee, that they aren't competing with Sony and Microsoft, and daring to believe that that's what he actually meant. Perhaps you think some of the comments in this thread, that he meant something completely different to what he said are more valid than just quoting what he said. Perhaps you are the one that needs to do some thinking?

Who knows.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about ... No one in Nintendo Korea has any influence in the direction of Nintendo as a company!

For the longest time Nintendo outsourced marketing and distribution in South Korea to a company which was fairly incompetent and corrupt ... From my understanding, only a couple of years ago Nintendo decided to return the work in house and the division is smaller and less important that Nintendo of Canada; which is in itself a tiny and unimportant division.

It doesn't make any difference. I'm going to believe a Nintendo employee on the payroll over an internet nobody who can't spell his name any day of the week.

 

I can see it is amazingly important for you that the Wii isn't competing against the HD consoles because NPD is comming out tomorow ... After all if it was in direct competition with the HD consoles it wouldn't be much of a competition with the Wii and Nintendo DS both outsold the other consoles combined by a decent margin



CAN SOMEONE PLEASE just find and post the Cammie Dunaway quote where she points out that Nintendo want's to consume the Playstation 3 and Xbox360 market! THAT's all it would take to kill this thread. I'm sadly on my PS3, I think it was the elgefe interview with her in the south/central american video gaming meet.



I'm Unamerica and you can too.

The Official Huge Monster Hunter Thread: 



The Hunt Begins 4/20/2010 =D

noname2200 said:
Outcast said:

Hello, noname2200. I have no idea who you are, but it seems you know me so I'll attempt to reply to your post in a way that would satisfy you.

Unfortunately for me, I've seen hundreds of you in my lifetime. Folks who stick stubbornly to their viewpoint, rather than taking the few seconds of thinking required to arrive at a better understanding of whatever situation they encounter, who prefer to brush off any opinion that doesn't match their own, rather than try to learn from others.

The good news for you is that you might someday become President of the United States!

Outcast said:

I have nothing to learn from this Malstrom. I imagine he has a few things to learn from me, however; I'd point him in the direction of a dictionary for a start. Maelstrom.

Witty! Well done on using a tired, ill-aimed joke that no one's ever heard before. But the real bonus points come from attempting an ad-hominem attack, rather than addressing the issue. You can copy-paste the above section here, if you wish.

Outcast said:

Perhaps you think that a nobody who starts a blog on the internet holds more sway and influence over Nintendo's strategy than a high ranking employee from the company.

I hope there are other options...

Outcast said:

Perhaps you think I'm wrong about taking the quote from the Nintendo employee, that they aren't competing with Sony and Microsoft, and daring to believe that that's what he actually meant.

Oh good, it IS multiple choice! 

Outcast said:

Perhaps you think some of the comments in this thread, that he meant something completely different to what he said are more valid than just quoting what he said.

Excellent. I choose this option. And why wouldn't I? After all, the head of Nintendo said this exact same thing before the Wii even launched, back in '05 or so. (You'd know this if you checked those links) This option makes the most sense, seeing as how it actually fits in neatly with the things Nintendo's been saying and doing since before the DS was launched (again, check those links).

So who to believe? An internet poster who's taking something literally when it obviously wasn't meant that way? (I'd say "putting words in Nintendo's mouth," but that's not what's happening here. "Only hearing what he wants to hear"? That sounds more accurate) Or do I go with Malstrom's explanation, when the latter's explanation makes a consistent sense? Decisions decisions...

Outcast said:

Perhaps you are the one that needs to do some thinking?

Always, my friend! After all, a man who stops thinking is just a waste of time. So I choose options C and D. But please try to join me for the thinking part. If you're feeling too rusty (which is understandable), feel free to take a moment and warm up. I'm willing to wait.

Outcast said:

 

Who knows.

Demonstrably, not you. But again, we can work on this.

 

 

Spoken like a true philosophy student. Overthinking trivial things which are ultimately irrelevant. I can certainly see why you praise Malstrom. Let's not get into that though, pointless degree or not you seem like an intelligent enough guy.

Thinly veiled attacks and fluff aside, the one point you seem to make is an incorrect one. Oh dear, not a very good start is it? Putting words in Nintendo's mouth does not mean taking a quote from a Nintendo spokesman's mouth and writing it down word for word. You see, I see things in black and white. There is no obvious different meaning at all because it doesn't exist.

Hearing what I want to hear? Well he didn't say anything else on the subject so it seems I've heard everything there is to be heard. It seems I have a few things to learn about being stubborn. When your beloved company says something that doesn't agree with your (Malstrom's) opinion, then everyone has to look for a completely different (but obvious!) meaning. Ho hum. 



This is funny... Look, for all I care Nintendo could say that they're competing with evil badgers from the planet Zork. The truth is that they're competing with PS3 and 360 in many ways whether they want to or not. Only a troll, someone delusional or a delusional troll would disagree.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

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NJ5 said:

This is funny... Look, for all I care Nintendo could say that they're competing with evil badgers from the planet Zork. The truth is that they're competing with PS3 and 360 in many ways whether they want to or not. Only a troll, someone delusional or a delusional troll would disagree.

 

Nintendo employees are delusional trolls of their own company? This is certainly getting interesting.

 



If you actually break down how consumerism works, the greatest competition any company has is in fact consumer disinterest. Why? Because there are far more potential customers who do NOT buy your product than there are customers who DO buy your product. No matter how skilled your fellow same-value competitors may be at eating into your market share, it's all for naught if that market is stagnant or shrinking. And stagnating/shrinking is what markets naturally do over time, due to rising consumer disinterest.

Nintendo does ostensibly compete with MS and Sony in the sense that they all provide video game systems for sale, but their main opponent for some time now has been the disinterest that makes many people say "meh" or "what?" when the subject of gaming is brought up. That a core goal of a Blue Ocean Strategy, of course: trying to get a customer base that has proven itself disinterested in the market you've decided to operate in, in the past.



Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.

Outcast said:

Spoken like a true philosophy student.

Ouch! Philosophy student? That hurts!

Seriously though, let's get to it.

Overthinking trivial things which are ultimately irrelevant.

Oh, I dunno about this. A year in legal work has taught me that what some might think is trivial ultimately proves to be quite important. Let me demonstrate.

Thinly veiled attacks and fluff aside, the one point you seem to make is an incorrect one.... Putting words in Nintendo's mouth does not mean taking a quote from a Nintendo spokesman's mouth and writing it down word for word.

That is correct, which may be why I wrote "I'd say "putting words in Nintendo's mouth," but that's not what's happening here."

You even quoted it.

You see, I see things in black and white. There is no obvious different meaning at all because it doesn't exist.

It's a pity that you see things "in black and white." It means you overlook things, sometimes even obvious things that others are trying to tell you. Again, I'll demonstrate in a moment.

Hearing what I want to hear? Well he didn't say anything else on the subject so it seems I've heard everything there is to be heard.

Making mental connections is our most crucial learning tool, the essence of human intelligence; to forge links; to go beyond the given; to see patterns, relationships, context

-Marilyn Ferguson

 

Allow me to show you the things you have overlooked.

 

"We want to appeal to mothers who don't want consoles in their living rooms, and to the elderly and to young women. It's a challenge, like trying to sell cosmetics to men. If we can do this, the Wii could break all the boundaries in terms of user rates for game consoles. We are not battling Sony or Microsoft. Our enemy is consumer indifference to games.''"

-Iwata, September 2006

 

What, then, are we to make of this comment? Using simplistic logic, you say

 

"I think we can take this as meaning the following:

Nintendo is not competing for the attention of hardcore gamers.
Nintendo is competing for the attention of non-gamers.

Sony and Microsoft are competing for the attention of hardcore gamers.
Sony and Microsoft are not (this is changing slowly) competing for the attention of non-gamers.

Therefore they are not directly in competition in so far as target audience."

 

And yet you arrive at this conclusion by examining simply a single quote (albeit a new one by a smaller Nintendo employee). Like a vacationer in Rome who's seen the Colloseum and visited the Vatican, you think to yourself that you've seen everything there is to see, and quickly move on, cheerfully and deliberately ignoring the rich landscape around you. Meanwhile, those of us who stayed on saw so much more...

 

"”The way I look at casual games...I think a lot of people view it as a threat…

”I think, what it is, it's a nice gateway drug. It makes people understand the principles of gaming.

”Let's not kid ourselves. When I grew up playing on Atari - those are the casual games of today. Pac-Man is a casual game, Centipede...All those things would be considered casual games now. Tetris is a casual game. There was no concept of a casual game back then...

”I think it is a nice gateway drug. I think it is going to strictly expand the market, which doesn't scare me very much.

“I think what BioShock did was, we said if we're going to have a complex game we have to invite the gamer to explore that complexity rather than just throwing it in their face and saying ‘Deal with it.’

”Nothing on the scale of a Wii Sports, but again, Wii Bowling is like the ultimate gateway drug and God bless them for figuring that out because there is no barrier of entry. ‘Hey, can you go like that?’ [swings arm] That's what you do in bowling, that's what you do in Wii Sports.

“It's not that [casual gaming] scares me. It excites me.

”I think there's a much better chance of people who wouldn't normally be interested in games going in and thinking ‘I'm interested in the history of Rome. I'll buy that strategy game,’ whereas before they would have been overwhelmed by the very concept of it.”

-Ken Levine

 

Hmm, interesting. According to this, Ken Levine thinks that "Casual" (Note that Nintendo never uses that word...) gamers can go on to be "Hardcore" gamers (Note that Nintendo doesn't either). I wonder what Nintendo has to say about that?

 

"Meanwhile, Nintendo itself is talking about "bridge games," a term we spotted in a company press release last month that describes games that "let video game novices and veterans play and have fun together." The company used it to describe "Mario Kart Wii" and used it again last week when representatives unveiled "Mario Super Sluggers." A rep even added that the bridge term was coined by Nintendo President Satoru Iwata."

 

So Nintendo is interested in having new gamers play games that traditional gamers do. Interesting. But that's a bit different than what Levine said, isn't it? For those of us who don't see in black and white, that is. So what conclusion do we draw from this, Outcast? Don't answer out loud just yet: there's more stuff to see!

I've put up a quote from Iwata that shows that "we're not competing with Microsoft and Sony, but indifference" is the old company line. I've put up a thought from Levine that "casual" gamers can become more traditional gamers, if given the opportunity. And finally, I've put up the fact that Nintendo is interested in having "video game novices and veterans play...together," which not only implicitly means they're still interested in the old market, but also that they're trying to morph their new customers into something other than what they are now.

But to see the complete picture, we will have to take another step back, and look at a marketing force called disruption. And this will surprise you, but when you said that "Nintendo is not competing for the attention of the hardcore gamers"...you were partially correct in your statement, but you had the wrong reason and envisioned the wrong result.

To be continued in the next (also long) post.

Edit: Oh snap, it's much longer than I'd thought.

 



Microsoft is the reason that the PS3 is behind this generation and not Nintendo. The Wii is still very much a fad. Wii Sports has only become the best selling game of all time because it is packed in with the Wii. And there is no evidence that these non-gamers that Nintendo has tried to turn into gamers this gen really have any interest in becoming gamers. If it were the case, many of the same people that would have bought Wii Fit would have also bought games like No More Heroes or Metroid 3, and those two games have less than thrilling sales no matter what console they are on.



Heavens to Murgatoids.

Is this topic really that big??

What I see here is that in Korea, Nintendo's trying to get more people to play games.



4 ≈ One