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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why can't 3rd parties compete against Nintendo?

TWRoO said:
Bodhesatva said:

Publishers in general need -- absolutely need -- to put things in to terms of demographic target audiences.

Things like Wii Sports or Mario Kart absolutely throw them for loops: that is, games that appeal to young and old, male and female. It's like the concept simply doesn't compute. They don't know where to start when they don't have a target demographic.

Just look at the difference between Catz and Dogz and Nintendo's own Nintendogs. I'm serious. The cover of Nintendogs is neutral: it has neutral colors like Red or Green and simply pictures of puppies. As a retail employee, I can tell you that this game likely split 70/30 girls/boys. Taking care of puppies does tend to be a girly thing, but honestly, everyone likes dogs. It was common to sell this game to boys, too.

Now, Catz and Dogz. The covers to these games are lined in pink, and in many of the Petz titles, there are stars and other "cute" stuff on the cover. This is the equivalent of writing the name "Doom" in blood, to let people know: "This is written in blood! It's violent and for boys!" The result? Every single copy of Petz games I ever sold was to girls. Every one. And the other result: I sold about 1/5th as many Petz games as I did Nintendogs.

Not every game has to be literally absolutely neutral when it comes to gender preferences: that's not what I'm arguing. What I'm arguing instead is that most publishers go way off in the other extreme: publishers pick a demographic, and hammer that demo as hard as they possibly can. Even if this scares off all the other demographics (a la pink stars for Dog training games, or Doom in blood a la FPS). This "Wii is for everyone" stuff is just absolutely throwing people for loops. It's for grandpas! No, it's for soccer moms! No, it's for non gamers! Wait, no, it's really for girls, who may also be non gamers!

Stop! Just stop. The correct answer is: it's for everyone. That's what Wii Sports has shown us. That's what Mario Kart has wrought. I understand why third parties are struggling so mightiliy though: it doesn't just require third parties to make different games, it requires them to approach game design differently in a much broader sense.

I think the Bodherator said it best.

 

Wow, that quote is epic. Really well done Bod.



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The Bod quote says enough.

Third parties can't compete because they don't know how, but that's universal. It doesn't matter who develops for the Wii, it wouldn't matter if Rockstar developed exclusively for the Wii and every GTA game from now until the end of time was released on a Nintendo platform, it would still give the impression that Nintendo overshadows the competition on its own platform. It's just how it goes. The big N just dominates that much because they know how to play the game.



TWRoO said:
Bodhesatva said:

Publishers in general need -- absolutely need -- to put things in to terms of demographic target audiences.

Things like Wii Sports or Mario Kart absolutely throw them for loops: that is, games that appeal to young and old, male and female. It's like the concept simply doesn't compute. They don't know where to start when they don't have a target demographic.

[SNIP]

I think the Bodherator said it best.

That's cheating. That's the post that made me think of putting up this post.



fkusumot said:

Why can't 3rd parties compete on the Wii?

Is it because it is impossible for them to compete against Nintendo?

It's as if Nintendo has some magical powers that prevent other games from selling.

Why doesn't Sony have this power? Before this generation many analysts assumed the PS3 would win this war because the Playstation brand was so strong. In comparison the GC sold just over 20 million and Nintendo could hardly be considered a juggernaut. Now Sony is producing more games per year and spending more money in making those games. And yet no one seems to suggest Sony's games are a problem for third parties. I haven't seen anyone suggest that Microsoft's games are a problem for 3rd parties either.

Why is this a problem that's unique to Nintendo?

What's so special about Nintendo that no other game maker has?

If I were to put a game on the PS3/360, I'd be competing against Call of Duty, Metal Gear Solid, Gears of War, Halo, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Grand Theft Auto 4, and many others. Companies seem to be willing to compete against the best that Konami, Epic, Bioware, Bethesda, Rockstar, Sony, Microsoft, Activision, and Ubisoft have to offer and to compete against all of them simultaneously. Why is it possible to penetrate this market but apparently impossible to break into the Wii market?

shiggy




If you drop a PS3 right on top of a Wii, it would definitely defeat it. Not so sure about the Xbox360. - mancandy
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becasue its always been that way...

Nintendo hardware = Nintendo software domination.



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2 reasons
1. The gaming media says that 3rd party games don't sell on Nintendo consoles.
2. 3rd party publishers believe it and make terrible games.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

Although Bod is 100% correct when it comes to the demographic targeting, I do think there is another issue at play ...

Most third party publishers and developers have a herd mentality, and they constantly chase someone else’s success. As a result of this they’re never as innovative or unique as the companies they’re following, and their games never receive the sales or the notoriety of the games they’re copying.

With the Wii Nintendo created a blank slate for anyone who wanted to could produce something new and unique; and Nintendo was quite successful at producing many new experiences for gamers. Unfortunately, most third party publishers don’t have a clue what to do with the Wii and would rather develop a Wii Sports, Wii Play or Wii Fit clone than to try something new.



I dk, firstly Nintendo advertise like a mutha fuba. This i believe is the no.1 problem affecting Wii 3rd sales. This fits in with game marketing and audience.

Secondly, assuming what works for Nintendo works for them and then they don't even develop a quality product anyway. They don't bother to really compete.

Thirdly, They don't try and change the image like they should be doing. Fine Leave Nintendo to make casual but it is, in Reggie's words, time to step up and put the best games on Wii. The more core titles the better the sales momentum towards that market. Eventually duel console owners will choose to dust off their Wii's.

Why can't the others get these sales? Because PS360 don't make games for everyone. They can try, but their image is just as tarnished with blood and violence as Nintendo's is with flowers and bunny rabbits.

Exclusive Nintendo problem? its not a problem, but 20 yrs of experience in making games fun for everyone has taught it something.

I like that final point you make. Why compete right? Especially against so many other third party companies. Especially for the same core market. Well i think its because that core market buys shit loads of games frequently.

I disagree that penetration of the PS360 is easy though. Look at non big studio releases, they don't make money. New ip's don't make money.

im finished



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

O-D-C said:
becasue its always been that way...

Nintendo hardware = Nintendo software domination.

 

THIS

 

EDIT: even the gamecube's best selling was 1st party,super smah broz...



I think its just a catchy phrase that just oozes "Bull Shit"

The bottomline is, Nintendo is very much synonomous with quality, you cannot shit out crappy ports and non sense and expect that to compete with Nintendo's top quality stuff. Many third party A-list teams have trouble competing (quality wise) with Nintendo. Most 3rd parties have 2 or 3rd string teams working on the Wii and expect it to compete? Good luck.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.