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Forums - Microsoft - Red Faction Maxes out Xbox 360 - Volition turn to Xbox 720

Rainbird on 03 January 2009
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Rainbird said:
SpartanFX said:

red fraction looks worse than gears 2 to me ,,,so how do they think they maxed it out?

off topic:

I wish some devs would focus a little bit more on cell,,,if we can get uncharted ,killzone 2 ,lbp,MGS4 with cell and only 256 mb of ram and graphic card ,,,imagine what it can do if the graphic card and ram were above 1 gig.Hopefully we'll see in PS4

He did say they were having trouble with the memory. Not the GPU. They maxed it out because everything in RFG is destructible, closer to real world physics than any console game before it, maybe even surpassing Crysis.

Exactly. Something that the PS3 definitely beats the 360 at is memory. The 360 will not reach its graphical peak against the PS3 anytime soon.

 

Uhm, no?

And the article doesn't say anything about the graphics being the problem here, nor does it mention the PS3. Why did you even reply?



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badgenome on 03 January 2009
Rainbird said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Rainbird said:
SpartanFX said:

red fraction looks worse than gears 2 to me ,,,so how do they think they maxed it out?

off topic:

I wish some devs would focus a little bit more on cell,,,if we can get uncharted ,killzone 2 ,lbp,MGS4 with cell and only 256 mb of ram and graphic card ,,,imagine what it can do if the graphic card and ram were above 1 gig.Hopefully we'll see in PS4

He did say they were having trouble with the memory. Not the GPU. They maxed it out because everything in RFG is destructible, closer to real world physics than any console game before it, maybe even surpassing Crysis.

Exactly. Something that the PS3 definitely beats the 360 at is memory. The 360 will not reach its graphical peak against the PS3 anytime soon.

 

Uhm, no?

And the article doesn't say anything about the graphics being the problem here, nor does it mention the PS3. Why did you even reply?

He's agreeing with you...



S.T.A.G.E. on 03 January 2009
Rainbird said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Rainbird said:
SpartanFX said:

red fraction looks worse than gears 2 to me ,,,so how do they think they maxed it out?

off topic:

I wish some devs would focus a little bit more on cell,,,if we can get uncharted ,killzone 2 ,lbp,MGS4 with cell and only 256 mb of ram and graphic card ,,,imagine what it can do if the graphic card and ram were above 1 gig.Hopefully we'll see in PS4

He did say they were having trouble with the memory. Not the GPU. They maxed it out because everything in RFG is destructible, closer to real world physics than any console game before it, maybe even surpassing Crysis.

Exactly. Something that the PS3 definitely beats the 360 at is memory. The 360 will not reach its graphical peak against the PS3 anytime soon.

 

Uhm, no?

And the article doesn't say anything about the graphics being the problem here, nor does it mention the PS3. Why did you even reply?

I was agreeing with you that it was a memory issue. The 360's memory was maxed out with the game. The PS3's memory hasn't been broken yet, or the dev would've mentioned it.

 



Rainbird on 03 January 2009
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Rainbird said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Rainbird said:
SpartanFX said:

red fraction looks worse than gears 2 to me ,,,so how do they think they maxed it out?

off topic:

I wish some devs would focus a little bit more on cell,,,if we can get uncharted ,killzone 2 ,lbp,MGS4 with cell and only 256 mb of ram and graphic card ,,,imagine what it can do if the graphic card and ram were above 1 gig.Hopefully we'll see in PS4

He did say they were having trouble with the memory. Not the GPU. They maxed it out because everything in RFG is destructible, closer to real world physics than any console game before it, maybe even surpassing Crysis.

Exactly. Something that the PS3 definitely beats the 360 at is memory. The 360 will not reach its graphical peak against the PS3 anytime soon.

 

Uhm, no?

And the article doesn't say anything about the graphics being the problem here, nor does it mention the PS3. Why did you even reply?

I was agreeing with you that it was a memory issue. The 360's memory was maxed out with the game. The PS3's memory hasn't been broken yet, or the dev would've mentioned it.

 

Well fuck me xP



shams on 03 January 2009
megaman2 said:

Gameplayer: So you’re saying that RFG is pushing the hardware as far as it can go? Squeezing every drop of juice out of the Xbox 360?

Rick White: Yeah, we’ve got it to the point where we can’t even put an extra vehicle into a world, because it’ll blow the memory. Every little change we make we have to be hyper-critical about it because it could just bring the whole system down. We evaluate every little change in the game, and then we run our tools on it to make sure it isn’t going to break the game and then we move forward, so it really is about pushing the engine as far as we can, and pushing the hardware as far as we can, and then looking at what is the next set of hardware that’s going to come out. Where can we take it then? You know we’re already thinking about if we had XYZ X number of years from now, what would we do with our engine?

That sounds a little wanky to me, to be honest. Saying that they used 100% of the 512MB of RAM that the 360 has available is just excessive - they should cut back on some of their textures, and add extra content to the game if its important.

Unless they have balanced their textures/RAM usage to 50:50, its going to make a PS3 port much, much harder as well - as the memory is more segmented.

...

They should be using more compression (i.e. for game/mesh/sound data) if they have RAM issues - I just don't believe that everything is compressed and perfectly optimised (for RAM use) - and they have used the entire 512MB.

Or setup a local RAM texture cache, and stream textures into the cache as needed. That could save them 100MB...



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SpartanFX on 03 January 2009

@shams

they actually asked sony for help as they said they didn't know how to do it.

I remember the article ,,,i can post it for you,,,,

so i don't know if sony has helped them or not,,,,but in the interview they said we asked sony for help to teach us how to do it.



 

 

 

S.T.A.G.E. on 03 January 2009
shams said:
megaman2 said:

Gameplayer: So you’re saying that RFG is pushing the hardware as far as it can go? Squeezing every drop of juice out of the Xbox 360?

Rick White: Yeah, we’ve got it to the point where we can’t even put an extra vehicle into a world, because it’ll blow the memory. Every little change we make we have to be hyper-critical about it because it could just bring the whole system down. We evaluate every little change in the game, and then we run our tools on it to make sure it isn’t going to break the game and then we move forward, so it really is about pushing the engine as far as we can, and pushing the hardware as far as we can, and then looking at what is the next set of hardware that’s going to come out. Where can we take it then? You know we’re already thinking about if we had XYZ X number of years from now, what would we do with our engine?

That sounds a little wanky to me, to be honest. Saying that they used 100% of the 512MB of RAM that the 360 has available is just excessive - they should cut back on some of their textures, and add extra content to the game if its important.

Unless they have balanced their textures/RAM usage to 50:50, its going to make a PS3 port much, much harder as well - as the memory is more segmented.

...

They should be using more compression (i.e. for game/mesh/sound data) if they have RAM issues - I just don't believe that everything is compressed and perfectly optimised (for RAM use) - and they have used the entire 512MB.

Or setup a local RAM texture cache, and stream textures into the cache as needed. That could save them 100MB...

If they used the entire 512 MB of RAM wouldn't that mean the PS3 version will turn out graphically superior since the 360 shares the 512 MB of RAM between the GPU and the CPU? If the game was done evenly it would've turned out the same, but the PS3 can compress files better right?

 



SpartanFX on 03 January 2009

@shams here is the article:

http://www.oxm.co.uk/article.php?id=6810



 

 

 

Sri Lumpa on 03 January 2009
megaman2 said:

Gameplayer: So you’re saying that RFG is pushing the hardware as far as it can go? Squeezing every drop of juice out of the Xbox 360?

Rick White: Yeah, we’ve got it to the point where we can’t even put an extra vehicle into a world, because it’ll blow the memory. Every little change we make we have to be hyper-critical about it because it could just bring the whole system down. We evaluate every little change in the game, and then we run our tools on it to make sure it isn’t going to break the game and then we move forward, so it really is about pushing the engine as far as we can, and pushing the hardware as far as we can, and then looking at what is the next set of hardware that’s going to come out. Where can we take it then? You know we’re already thinking about if we had XYZ X number of years from now, what would we do with our engine?

Gameplayer: So you’ve got a lot of plans for this engine?

Rick White: I think as the consoles grow, be it the 720 or whatever, it’s going to increase our ability to deliver a better looking game with more destruction, or more dense environments. I mean, one thing we have now, because we’re throwing so many polys around we’re not as dense as Saints Row 2. One thing that you could see with a more powerful console with more dense environments.

Gameplayer: We see a lot of developers these days juggling multiple projects, what’s the secret to success?

Rick White: That’s an interesting question. I think part of it is timing, part of it is luck, and it’s having dedicated teams. With Saints Row 2 and RFG we had our own separate teams, and we steal from each other as far as technology goes, but we do our own thing and we have our own staff.

It seems my debate with Mrstickball that the Xbox 360 has peaked too early has sufficed, developers are already looking at the next console.

Mrstickball what is your response to this?

Plz Discuss

I am not MrStickball and I own neither HD console (yet) but if I was him I would say that given that they say they maxed out the 360 due to its memory limitation I would guess that due to the PS3 having as little memory as the 360 either they maxed out the PS3 too (if its multiplatform) or, if it is 360 only (or 360/PC) that the game might only be doable on the 360 due to its  more flexible memory architecture and that it more than maxes out the PS3.

Either way it would not look good for the PS3 in your debate as it either would be maxed out at the same time as the 360 (but earlier in its life) or it would be maxed out before the 360 and while the PS3 cried uncle the 360 kept on chugging just a little bit longer.

So don't look at that article to help you in your debate.

That being said, memory is only one component of a console and they did not say whether they maxed out the GPU and CPU too. Plus, maxed out would only mean 100% utilisation at all time, not that that utilisation cannot be made more efficient in a later game and thus result in a better game. This of course apply to all consoles.

So as usual we arrive at the conclusion that the only use for a developer to say he maxed out a given console is for generating hype: "looke me, no RAM left. BUY MY GAME".

 



"I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"

 

Shadowblind on 03 January 2009

Lol, and all along here I thought Gears of War 1 was the 360's peak.

I know its a joke thread but this made me lol.



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