i am not surprised because the PS3 had risen 33% is software in europe. so if the software is too expensive why buy the hardware.

 Eh, really? That's not good.

It is still possible to outsell them all including Forza 2 (2.3mil unbundled sales).  GT5:P has virtually the same sales as Forza 2 unbundled sales and I think it is safe to assume most GT5:P buyers will buy GT5 + those who did not want to waste $40 on a glorified demo.

that what i'm trying to say

if GT5 is so awesome, why GT5P sales is not skyrocketing, it is just = 2mil,

they already waiting for more than 3 years for GT5 and when sony release GT5P, it only sell 2 mil it is something wrong with ps3 user.

also your number is wrong,  if we said sales i meant included bundles

Forza2 already > 4mil.

PS3 user said, GT5P is so awesome that we only bought 2mil of it 

i think it is some indication, that GT5 sales of course will have good sales, not as good as predicted

or even if it is good, it won't move hardware, just like MGS4.

^^only time will tell, my Martian avatar friend.
Personally I think will have good sales and at least move as much hardware as MGS4 did.

But I do believe that the longer it takes PD to release the game, the more it will hurt them.
By the time it releases, all the cars they so lovingly added will probably be just short of being classified as antiques, and who's going to want to buy GT: Model-T racing?

Just be afraid NEXT YEAR when Ninty actually have some solid gaming titles out Xmas (Zelda, FZero, who know what...).

At this stage, they may *never* drop the price of the Wii - just keep bundling it.

"the price is good enough to entice the average gaming consumer to pick the Xbox 360 head & shoulders above the truly inferior Playstation 3."

Wank, fan boy wank. And i don't care how you tried to cover yourself after the fact, its still fan boy wank

I completely agree and this is why I don't see GT5 doing more than 4 millions or 5 millions if it have huge legs.

I think your aren't looking into this far enough to fully understand things.  Your argument is that an expanded demo of a game is not selling X number so the full version won't sell that much.  It couldn't be futher from the truth.  A large number of people will not buy GT5:P because it is in fact overpriced for the amount of game there (i am included, i borrowed it from a relative).  GT5:P sales are not skyrocketing because the product does not have a high cost:benefit ratio to the majority of buyers.

Secondly: you must look at GT franchise history.  You will notice GT:4 had a prologue before release and it only sold 1.31mil units and GT4 full version sold 9.52 million (data from VGChartz)

Thirdly:  My numbrs are not wrong, it is just a different interpretation.  I do not always find it fair to include bundle numbers in software sales numbers.  It is misleading.  If there is sufficient data to show sales numbers minus bundles it should be used.  The majority of people with Forza got it with their system last holiday season and probably never played it.  If you are going to rave over a game including bundled sales your next post will be something like : "OMG KUNG FU PANDA 360 STOMPS PS3, AMAZING MILLION SELLER". 

Fourth:  MGS4 did not move hardware?  Hmm, that is confusing.  It did sell hardware, just not what you were expecting?

MGS4 sold about 160k more PS3 than the average sales in a one week boost. Nothing spectacular.