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Forums - Sales - Will the PS3 hit 11 mil consoles sold by year's end?

HappySqurriel on 30 July 2007
alpha_dk said:
4-D graphics (specifically, vertex4[insert type here]) exist in the OpenGL specifications. The PS3 uses OpenGL. Thus, the PS3 has 4d graphics. Although I am not versed in DirectX, I feel I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that an analogous call exists in it. Can anyone more versed than I am (that is, versed at all) in DirectX [10] confirm or deny this?

In any case, the PS3 does have 4d graphics, and can we *please* stop using this bit of marketing fluff to make arguments either for or against any console?

Technically speaking the fact that you use 4 co-ordinates to specify a point in projective geometry has absoluetly nothing to do with it being a 4 dimensional space; it still is (in fact) a three dimensional space because one entire dimension actually represents duplicates ...

Basically, a point in space is:

ax + by + cz + 1w

if you change the co-efficient of w (to d) this represents the point:

a/dx+ b/dy + c/dz + 1w

The only exception to this rule is when d=0 which represents the three dimensional vector

ax + by + cz



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alpha_dk on 30 July 2007

@happysquirrel

True. However, in the documentation and in common vernacular it is still known as a "4-dimensional" point. Whether or not this means anything is up to debate; I personally think it is a stupid argument to make (because of this misleading hype going around). However, the argument was made and as such it is backed by the OpenGL specifications.

I stand by my statement that DX10 almost certainly has similar functionality (although I can't prove it now, and am not going to take the time to search through its API to find out), and that the argument should stop being made (because it is specious at best, and worthless no matter what).



Please, PLEASE do NOT feed the trolls.
fksumot tag: "Sheik had to become a man to be useful. Or less useful. Might depend if you're bi."

--Predictions--
1) WiiFit will outsell the pokemans.
  Current Status: 2009.01.10 70k till PKMN Yellow (Passed: Emerald, Crystal, FR/LG)

leo-j on 30 July 2007
HappySqurriel said:
alpha_dk said:
4-D graphics (specifically, vertex4[insert type here]) exist in the OpenGL specifications. The PS3 uses OpenGL. Thus, the PS3 has 4d graphics. Although I am not versed in DirectX, I feel I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that an analogous call exists in it. Can anyone more versed than I am (that is, versed at all) in DirectX [10] confirm or deny this?

In any case, the PS3 does have 4d graphics, and can we *please* stop using this bit of marketing fluff to make arguments either for or against any console?

Technically speaking the fact that you use 4 co-ordinates to specify a point in projective geometry has absoluetly nothing to do with it being a 4 dimensional space; it still is (in fact) a three dimensional space because one entire dimension actually represents duplicates ...

Basically, a point in space is:

ax + by + cz + 1w

if you change the co-efficient of w (to d) this represents the point:

a/dx+ b/dy + c/dz + 1w

The only exception to this rule is when d=0 which represents the three dimensional vector

ax + by + cz


I have no idea what this is...:P

He means not the fourth dimension in the game, but that it looks like its 4rth dimensianal in a 3d world. When I said that gt5 looks as realistic as a car, to people thats saying its 4d graphics.



 

mM
wangfoo on 31 July 2007

Lets just go through this one more time.

 The 4th dimension is time. Everything looks like it is in the 4th dimension because, thus far, man is incapable of altering our route in time. We can only go forward in time. 

For instance, if GT5 was capable of actually altering the 4th dimension, I could use it to go into the future and see which system would win, pick up a dozen or so major events to happen in the future, come back, post what I found out, and end this forum all together.

I don't think GT5 will ever be that awesome. 



"Suck on it" -vgchartz mod

alpha_dk on 31 July 2007

Lets go through this one more time.

*A* fourth dimension *may be* time. There are also physical (spatial) fourth dimensions. Not only that, but time itself may be a construct of various spatial dimensions. We don't quite know what time is yet -- we can't predict in the least what happens in 10^-44 seconds (a planck unit of time).

So no, "the" fourth dimension is not time.



Please, PLEASE do NOT feed the trolls.
fksumot tag: "Sheik had to become a man to be useful. Or less useful. Might depend if you're bi."

--Predictions--
1) WiiFit will outsell the pokemans.
  Current Status: 2009.01.10 70k till PKMN Yellow (Passed: Emerald, Crystal, FR/LG)

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WiteoutKing on 31 July 2007
mitsuhide said:
@Soriku:
Have you seen Killzone2? Have you seen GT5(i wouldnt say they are real as real life though thats far)? Do you even know what 4d is?

 For the last time, the fourth dimension is time, you ignorant twit.

 Guh.  I'm sorry for being so... well, lots of things there.  But seriously.  Anyone who's buying into this "4D" crap is proving they know nothing about that which they rave.


EDIT: This has apparently been said about a dozen times in this topic alone.  I wonder if you people will get the message yet.



PS3: 5.51m/51w, avg 108,039/w (up 239)
360: 12.93m/102w, avg 126,764/w (up 625), leads PS3 by 7.42m (up 70k), avg lead 18,725/w (up 386)
Wii: 13.52m/51w, avg 265,098/w (dn 1,102), leads PS3 by 8.01m (up 90k), avg lead 157,059/w (dn 1,341)

If 360 sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass 360 by...
01/08: (008w) +875.8%, 04/08: (021w) +344.4%, 07/08: (034w) +219.3%, 10/08: (047w) +163.5%
01/09: (060w) +131.8%, 04/09: (073w) +111.4%, 07/09: (085w) +098.1%, 10/09: (099w) +086.7%
If Wii sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass Wii by...
01/08: (008w) +1072.%, 04/08: (021w) +498.4%, 07/08: (034w) +363.4%, 10/08: (047w) +303.1%
01/09: (060w) +269.0%, 04/09: (073w) +246.9%, 07/09: (085w) +232.6%, 10/09: (099w) +220.3%
If PS2 sales freeze, Wii sales increases needed to pass PS2 (as of Mar07, 108.4m) by...
2008: (008w) +4373.8%, 2009: (060w) +0496.5%, 2010: (112w) +0219.6%, 2011: (165w) +0116.9%
2012: (217w) +0064.9%, 2013: (269w) +0033.1%, 2014: (321w) +0011.5%, 2015: (376w) -0004.8%
At +0% it will pass it in 358w, the week ending September 19th, 2014, at an age of 409w (7y44w).
Current age of PS2: 7y37w.

Last update: Week ending November 3, 2007

wangfoo on 31 July 2007
alpha_dk said:
Lets go through this one more time.

*A* fourth dimension *may be* time. There are also physical (spatial) fourth dimensions. Not only that, but time itself may be a construct of various spatial dimensions. We don't quite know what time is yet -- we can't predict in the least what happens in 10^-44 seconds (a planck unit of time).

So no, "the" fourth dimension is not time.

Do you honestly believe that someone who refers to GT5 as 4d graphics is really going to understand the intricasies of space-time?

When referred to in this manner, yes, time is "the" fourth dimension. We can save the astrophysics debate for another thread. 



"Suck on it" -vgchartz mod

your mother on 31 July 2007
WiteoutKing said:
mitsuhide said:
@Soriku:
Have you seen Killzone2? Have you seen GT5(i wouldnt say they are real as real life though thats far)? Do you even know what 4d is?

For the last time, the fourth dimension is time, you ignorant twit.

Guh. I'm sorry for being so... well, lots of things there. But seriously. Anyone who's buying into this "4D" crap is proving they know nothing about that which they rave.


EDIT: This has apparently been said about a dozen times in this topic alone. I wonder if you people will get the message yet.

A couple of things:

WiteoutKing and alpha_dk are in for a bit of arm wrestling...

4D as a marketing phrase has obviously caught on with the "lesser-informed" PS3 fans.

I have fun playing games whether they are in 4D, 3D, 2D or "1D" (text-based games) as long as the game is entertaining.



WiteoutKing on 31 July 2007

your_mother: I would be inclined to agree, it's catching on quite well with the PS3 fans that have no idea what "4D" implies. I'm just starting to get steamed (though also quite amused) that they throw around that "The PS3 is 4D!" when they have no idea what they are saying.

So long as it's fun, I'll play any game of any "dimension". The day someone comes out with a "4D" game is the day the gaming industry changes altogether.



PS3: 5.51m/51w, avg 108,039/w (up 239)
360: 12.93m/102w, avg 126,764/w (up 625), leads PS3 by 7.42m (up 70k), avg lead 18,725/w (up 386)
Wii: 13.52m/51w, avg 265,098/w (dn 1,102), leads PS3 by 8.01m (up 90k), avg lead 157,059/w (dn 1,341)

If 360 sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass 360 by...
01/08: (008w) +875.8%, 04/08: (021w) +344.4%, 07/08: (034w) +219.3%, 10/08: (047w) +163.5%
01/09: (060w) +131.8%, 04/09: (073w) +111.4%, 07/09: (085w) +098.1%, 10/09: (099w) +086.7%
If Wii sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass Wii by...
01/08: (008w) +1072.%, 04/08: (021w) +498.4%, 07/08: (034w) +363.4%, 10/08: (047w) +303.1%
01/09: (060w) +269.0%, 04/09: (073w) +246.9%, 07/09: (085w) +232.6%, 10/09: (099w) +220.3%
If PS2 sales freeze, Wii sales increases needed to pass PS2 (as of Mar07, 108.4m) by...
2008: (008w) +4373.8%, 2009: (060w) +0496.5%, 2010: (112w) +0219.6%, 2011: (165w) +0116.9%
2012: (217w) +0064.9%, 2013: (269w) +0033.1%, 2014: (321w) +0011.5%, 2015: (376w) -0004.8%
At +0% it will pass it in 358w, the week ending September 19th, 2014, at an age of 409w (7y44w).
Current age of PS2: 7y37w.

Last update: Week ending November 3, 2007

KruzeS on 31 July 2007
alpha_dk said:
However, in the documentation and in common vernacular it is still known as a "4-dimensional" point.

Wrongly so, because they are 3D homogenenous coordinates.

And they're used everywhere because they: a) simplify perspective projection (essential for 3D); b) facilitate the composition of affine transformations (like rotation, reflection, scaling, shear and in particular translation); c) allow the representation of points at infinity.

Direct3D most definitely uses them, OpenGL since its inception 15 years ago, I'd bet every 3D hardware uses them. For 3D (homogeneous coordinates), for rotations (quaternions), for colors (with alpha) - 4 coordinate vectors are the norm.

4D is nothing but marketing speak.



Reality has a Nintendo bias.