Not all strategy games are grid based. Look at Phantom Brave or Valkyria Chronicles.

I disagree, Fallout 3's storyline is kind of silly and the ending was exceptionally disappointing.  Also I think they took out alot of the cool things from Oblivion with the game and there was not enough weapon variety for my tastes in that type of game.  I wanted to play the game as a sniper, and I ended up with very few choices for guns.  I did enjoy creating weapons though, some very cool inventions.

lol there isnt a game like valkyria, disgea 3 is a proper startegy game. valykyria battle playes out like a normal rpg but in 3rd person view its totally unique.

Can we agree to disagree?

It's actually billed as a Tactical Role Playing Game, if I recall, and makes use of battles and maps that lead to gameflow which has elements of shooters, and arpgs.

I guess you could bill it as a "RPG" but that would be lying by omission, because the gameflow, and indeed the gameplay also consists of mostly elements derived from other tactical srpgs, both RTS and Turn based.

Let's drop it though, I don't wanna get into this argument. It's been argued by me plenty already.

I still would say that oblivion, vampire the masqurade, Fallout 3 and the rest of the games that are more or less first person shooters+level advancement and dialogue options are not RPGs. They are in the same tree, but they're at most cousins (while I would say SRPGs, JRPGs and RPGs with real time adventure action like the witcher or Neverwinter Nights are siblings).

If fallout is in the mix then yes fallout is the best RPG out there, but I don't think it is an RPG in the same sense.

As to the 360 vs PS3, I played the PS3 version, returned it, tried the 360 version (since I got credit rather then cash and that gamestop didn't have the PC version) and was similarly disappointed (it didn't have REALLY bad problems like the R2 button sometimes not working, but the graphics were just OK and it was actually harder to control then the PS3 version, maybe its just me but those joysticks are so badly placed).

I played it on the PC finally, giving up on the credit and just direct 2 driving it, and my next 40 hours of free time were consumed by that damn game. The PC version is night and day superior to either console version (the differenece between the 360 and PS3 is marginal, the difference between both and the PC is immense). The graphics are Crysis good, the gameplay is really easy to control, everything loads fast and moves flawlessly 99.9% of the time...just all around win.

I don't even have half the world explored yet and I'm maxed on XP (one weak point, if you do even marginal side quests you max out pretty fast). I still need to finish it, but I got distracted by Valk and R2, I'll go back in a bit, but those 40 hours were great (my enthusiasm quickly waned when I wasn't able to advance my character though, I REALLY wish the limit wasn't so easy to reach or there was more alternative advancement paths then just occasionally finding a book).

Anyway the equation goes Fallout3 >all other current RPGs except maybe the Witcher if its considered an RPG.
Fallout has given rise to a new dream, an Obsidian style Knights of the Old Republic 3. I can't even imagine how awesome that would be, it has potential beyond reason.

To those doubting its legs, I think it is of sufficient quality to pass at least 500k lifetime. A lot of games that were marginal successes were that way because of mediocre reviews and bad word of mouth (say, Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon). VC has some very very good word of mouth, great reviews and is an A+ game whether Fallout is better or not.

I really hope it does pass 500k so there is a good chance of seeing a VC 2. The only strategy game that could get me more excited then VC2 would be a new Final Fantasy Tactics game that isn't bogged down by being on crap handheld hardware like the DS. FFT+Final Fantasy 13 production values would = best game ever just like FFT was at its release (IMO anyway).

Have played through Mass Effect and I am playing Fallout 3 right now, VC is so much better. Haven't played Fable 2 as my 360 is still broken. Do you own it Zen?

@ CGI

It's likely to flop. It's released at a bad time, costs $60 and is a SRPG. It'll sell more than Disgaea 3, but I can only hope for it to match Radiant Dawn.

Sold it back, liked it though. Also, you're prone to like the japanese games more. I know you, lol.

I went to the store today to pick up my pre-order, and their stupid shipment didn't come in.

Yes.  I am insulting the intelligence of an inanimate, non-anthropomorphic entity, because I am annoyed.

I should get my copy within a few days. And I am impressed at the people who say they have actually finished Valkyria Chronicles. It has only been out for a few days and is supposed to be fairly long.

VC is a really impressive experiment for the SRPG genre.It oozes class and style and its an absolute amazing game and experience .

I am not sure if its better that TOV(havent played that ) ,but its surely better that LO ....its one of the best game of this generation.