MikeB said: @ HappySquirrel One of the main reasons so many companies have been moving towards IBM for their embedded solutions is because IBM has designed their processors in a modular way so that they can be highly customized. That's not the case with regard to the Broadway chip. The PS3 Cell is also basically as for some other products, other than one SPE being disabled for the PS3. Of course a lot R&D went into the Cell, unlike for the Broadway chip, but it's in Sony's interest to see as much mass production of the PS3 Cell as possible (like used for servers and super computers, this to trigger production cost reductions). If Nintendo doubled the on chip cache on the Broadway processor 64 KB L1 cache (32 KB instruction cache, 32 KB data cache) and 256 KB L2 cache.

 

Do you actually have a clue about anything you're talking about?

HappySqurriel said: MikeB said: @ HappySquirrel One of the main reasons so many companies have been moving towards IBM for their embedded solutions is because IBM has designed their processors in a modular way so that they can be highly customized. That's not the case with regard to the Broadway chip. The PS3 Cell is also basically as for some other products, other than one SPE being disabled for the PS3. Of course a lot R&D went into the Cell, unlike for the Broadway chip, but it's in Sony's interest to see as much mass production of the PS3 Cell as possible (like used for servers and super computers, this to trigger production cost reductions). If Nintendo doubled the on chip cache on the Broadway processor 64 KB L1 cache (32 KB instruction cache, 32 KB data cache) and 256 KB L2 cache.   Do you actually have a clue about anything you're talking about?

 

 

Haven't you asked that question before?

Squilliam said: Haven't you asked that question before?

 

Probably

I took a couple of courses that were related to low level programming when in university, and have done some work in embedded systems, and I am fully willing to admit that I don't know a lot when it comes to what makes one processor architecture better than others. MikeB frustrates me because he cites benchmarks where the Cell processor outperforms a 6 year old Power4 processor when performing the fast fourier transform and thinks that is (somehow) meaningful, even though he doesn't know what a fourier transform is.

Quite a few hackers have been working constantly for months to reverse engineer the Wii to understand it in order to provide information for homebrew development and they don't have much concrete information. They have been able to confirm a few details (like the Broadway processor's bus supports 128bit transfers to the L2 cache, which the PowerPC 750CXe doesn't) but there are more questions than answers when it comes to the Wii. With all of this somehow MikeB (a physical therapist by trade) knows exactly what the Broadway processor is and what it is capable of.

Certainly, Nintendo didn't put the R&D into the Broadway processor that was put into the Cell processor, but I think that it is highly likely that Nintendo ensured that their processor was as powerful as it could be given the constraints of price and energy consumption.

HappySqurriel said: Squilliam said: Haven't you asked that question before?   Probably I took a couple of courses that were related to low level programming when in university, and have done some work in embedded systems, and I am fully willing to admit that I don't know a lot when it comes to what makes one processor architecture better than others. MikeB frustrates me because he cites benchmarks where the Cell processor outperforms a 6 year old Power4 processor when performing the fast fourier transform and thinks that is (somehow) meaningful, even though he doesn't know what a fourier transform is. Quite a few hackers have been working constantly for months to reverse engineer the Wii to understand it in order to provide information for homebrew development and they don't have much concrete information. They have been able to confirm a few details (like the Broadway processor's bus supports 128bit transfers to the L2 cache, which the PowerPC 750CXe doesn't) but there are more questions than answers when it comes to the Wii. With all of this somehow MikeB (a physical therapist by trade) knows exactly what the Broadway processor is and what it is capable of. Certainly, Nintendo didn't put the R&D into the Broadway processor that was put into the Cell processor, but I think that it is highly likely that Nintendo ensured that their processor was as powerful as it could be given the constraints of price and energy consumption.

Really though to be honest regarding Wii performance, our perceptions have moved on so even if the Wii produces a fantastic looking game for its specifications which blows away Xbox 1/PS2/GC games we still probably wouldn't be moved as we've all seen much better.

The problem with using The Conduit, is the developers make it look hard to achieve the results like they're really struggling to push it and it kinda shows. So technically they're doing some really good stuff but they're shooting themselves in the foot a little with their artistry. They could use that engine and do much more it seems, just simple things like colour choices bringing out the aliasing, using complicated wall textures when they could have used a simple but good pattern and spent the resources elsewhere etc. Simple things which a developer like Valve would do as second nature really, but then again im comparing one of the best game development companies in the world to them.

So no, The Conduit looks good but its just not a graphical showpiece. Check out the Ubisoft Petz:Dogz game, thats artistry done well. They probably spent far less effort to achieve those results (Remember they are the developers from Assassins creed IIRC)

 

The wii isn't being used to it's full potential. I certainly will be supporting this game, and hopefully it sends a message to developers.

conker bad fur day goods great for a xbox game.

it even give a fight to galaxy.

yes its true wii its more powerful than the xbox, but seriously don't expect leaps in difference in their graphics you will be disappointed.

and the same points you used Wii vs xbox

it can be used wii vs ps3 or wii vs xbox360 but multiply by 30+.

considering games like assasin creed (7kk+) GTA4 (10kk+), MGS4 , Halo sell so well in HD console don't expect a huge shift by third party either.

so its either you are happy what nintendo gives you or you choose the wrong console.

HappySqurriel said: Squilliam said: Haven't you asked that question before?   Probably I took a couple of courses that were related to low level programming when in university, and have done some work in embedded systems, and I am fully willing to admit that I don't know a lot when it comes to what makes one processor architecture better than others. MikeB frustrates me because he cites benchmarks where the Cell processor outperforms a 6 year old Power4 processor when performing the fast fourier transform and thinks that is (somehow) meaningful, even though he doesn't know what a fourier transform is. Quite a few hackers have been working constantly for months to reverse engineer the Wii to understand it in order to provide information for homebrew development and they don't have much concrete information. They have been able to confirm a few details (like the Broadway processor's bus supports 128bit transfers to the L2 cache, which the PowerPC 750CXe doesn't) but there are more questions than answers when it comes to the Wii. With all of this somehow MikeB (a physical therapist by trade) knows exactly what the Broadway processor is and what it is capable of. Certainly, Nintendo didn't put the R&D into the Broadway processor that was put into the Cell processor, but I think that it is highly likely that Nintendo ensured that their processor was as powerful as it could be given the constraints of price and energy consumption.

When you become a PS3 fanboy, you are automatically given a PhD in microprocessor design.  You should refer to him as Dr. MikeB from now on.

 

I love the cherry picking of AAA game attempts over the the masses of the rest. It's funny to think that those can be used as the average stats of sales for a console.

This post is fun to read. Knowledgable people int he industry and their forum backers vs forum goers who want facts there way.

*grabs popcorn*

@ HappySqurriel

Things are getting a bit childish now. I have also done some Laboratory work and for what it's worth I had my own computer company and had dealings with IBM. And I wrote many tech articles in the past.

It's my choice to work as a physical therapist, I prefer to have my own chiropractic clinic above anything else. When my girlfriend is done with Pharmacy in a couple of years, we may well setup a medical center in the future.

Just because someone is good at one thing doesn't mean he isn't good at something else. I don't claim to know everything, many of the info comes from experts who should know.

IMO, the wii could have used a much more powerful graphics chip/RAM configuration that is what holds down performance in most cases, not the CPU. SMG/SSBB in HD would have looked so neat..

oh well..