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Forums - PC Discussion - OK you PC guys, I just don't get why mouse/keyboard FPS is such a big deal.

BrayanA on 23 October 2008

key + mouse is >>>> gamepad for FPS games!!!
If you are good, you can aim at targets with a single move of your hand. This is imposable with gamepad



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tabsina on 23 October 2008

i found it funny that on the second page, the defenders of analog were explaining that autoaim is there to balance it out.. doesn't that alone prove that keyboard/mouse is better at its essence?



IllegalPaladin on 23 October 2008
dougsdad0629 said:
vlad321 said:
Grey Acumen said:
vlad321 said:

 

1) Onyxmeth already answered this, I'm not comparing just keyboard to a dual analog, I'm comparing the wasd to a single analog stick, single analog wins. What point is there to moving at a speed between 0 and Max? Well, that seems pretty obvious to me, you see, I usually do only move at 0 or max except I don't ONLY move in straight ahead or left/right. There are 90 freaking degrees between straight ahead and left, and I feel it is perfectly reasonable to have access to all of them, as well as the other 3 sets of 90 that go between the 4 base directions and perhaps even the .5 degrees between them.
If I wanted to run straight ahead, but 5 degrees to the left, while shooting at something 45 degrees to the right, I should be able to do that, using the WASD keys and mouse, I would have to use some odd staggered pattern of 1 step to the left for every 5 steps forward, except in order to aim at what I'm shooting, I have to switch that partway in teh middle so that I'm going 2 steps to the right for every 5 steps, then 1 to 1 then 5 left for 2 stright ahead, etc. with Analog and mouse, I can aim, and as my mouse turns the camera so I'm facing in another direction, all I need to do is just rooooollllll my thumb in time with the camera and it will be just as much smoother than wasd as it is when you compare aiming with the mouse vs aiming with an analog stick.

2) You used lock on? Why? If you had adjusted your options to teh advanced controls, you could have made your camera more sensitive to the camera and been able to turn quickly without moving it all teh way to the edge of the screen, which allows you to line up your pointer with teh enemy as they come into view. The only thing I felt was lacking from MP3 was some way to do quick 90 degree turns, but they could have used the motion controls to do that (if you point the wiimote at teh edge of the screen and flick teh wiimtoe in that direction, it gives you a quick 90 degree auto turn, 2 flicks = 180)

3) This I call BS on. Or failure, it's your choice. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you NEVER had your analog stick maxed out at any other position besides 0, 45, 90, 135, 180, 225 and 270 and 315 positions? You never had the analog stick at say 30 degrees? or maybe rolled it from 0 to the 90 position, thus hitting all this positions inbetween momentarily? Sorry, just don't see it happening, and even if it did, that just means YOU don't benefit from the analog stick, not that other people can't.

4) Go put on a neck and back brace, now run around outside WHILE looking at stuff. Every time you turn your body to aim at something you must move only at 45 degree increments. You either have to keep running straight ahead, or you have to run at 45 degrees only. Does this sound difficult? congratulations, you've passed the first step. Now take off the back brace, instead of the wasd keys representing your whole body, the analog stick will represent your lower body, assume that any direction you pick is striaght ahead, you can look around in any direction(aiming) while still being able to continue running(analog) in the same direction regardless of how you are facing(aiming)
That is the difference between WASD keys and Analog stick. If you don't feel any way that can benefit, it's probably because those lovely FPS have their levels designed so that's not an issue. Really, it's the same thing as FPS games for consoles incorporating autoaim, it's just something less obvious because the handicap is implemented on an environmental level rather than a personal level.

Ickalanda said:

On a keyboard the movement reaction is instant where as an analogue stick has a "slowdown" moment where the joystick is still crossing over through the slower movement section then accelerating into the new direction, a keyboard reacts immediately.

you raise a good issue, except that usually is only for games that are designed for keyboard to begin with. When the game is designed for analog stick from the very start, the speed generally remains consistent through the entire arc of motion, you don't have slow downs and then speedups as it moves between points on the axis. Even then, that issue is easily negated simply by moving the control stick faster from one axis to the other.

 

1) Why do you wanna move 5 degrees to the right while oging forward is my question? It doesn't move you out of the line of fire nearly as fast as a direct right strafe. You just end up being shot at and dead.

2)Because if it was the advanced setting the friken screen would not stop moving unless i had the reticule dead center, which never happens. Hard to enjoy the scenery when you can keep the visor still.

3)Why does it matter if I hit all the positions momentarily? I want to do a hard left not a nice graceful arc. The rest goes back to point 1), I don't see the need to be moving in any angles other than the 90 degrees when facing a person. Anythign else gets you shot or isn't enough advancement forward.

 

4) Please enlighten me, how exactly are levels different when made for analog sticks and not WASD? Any Halo/GoW/Reista/you name it shooter has had the exact same level layouts as PC FPS games. Also I'd love to see ANYONE pull off smooth transitions between their aiming and moving with dual analog sticks, such that they continue moving in a straight line as they aim around, then I want them to do that and jump.

 

@OP

There is no reason why you'd need slow movement in a FPS game. It's either max, nothing, or die.

 

 That's based on the assumption that all you do is combat.  Games like Half-Life with narrow ledges and precise jumps need analog control.

I would have to disagree, the Half-Life games (and nearly all other PC FPS games I've played) have done just fine on PC despite it's jumping. 

 



IllegalPaladin on 23 October 2008

*edit* Wow, second time double posting, both times on a Mac..... Down with Safari!

 

Anyway, I would have to disagree with the people who say that the analog stick is better for moving. In my case, I can move my fingers with WSAD the same way I could rotate the left analog stick while I'm looking around. Also, With the keyboard/mouse controls, I don't have to sacrifice any movement or aiming when I want to do something (like reload). Take the controller, you have to sacrifice one of your thumbs from the left or right analog stick to do things like change weapons, reload, jump, ect. 

When it comes to movement and looking around, Portal is another great example. The game was a nightmare with the controller on the PS3, but controlling it with a keyboard and mouse felt much more natural and I'm suddenly able to use the portal gun to it's full effect. 

 



greenmedic88 on 23 October 2008

I don't think anyone is defending aiming with a right analog stick.

At least I would hope not since it's a pretty pointless argument.

Would you rather web browse or draw a simple graphic with a mouse or one of those laptop keyboard "nubbins" that used to be common before track pads became the standard? Because the nubbin is nothing more than a stumpy analog joystick, and a rather poor pointing device.

But the OP was specifically about using the keyboard for movement.

It wasn't until every PC user started pointing out that the mouse is required for complex movement that it suddenly became a mouse vs. analog stick pissing contest.


And on that note, now I really feel the need to find the best gaming keyboard available because this whole thread has served as a searing reminder of how ANNOYING it's been to game on a standard keyboard.

Short list includes the Logitech G11, the MS Reclusa, or the Ideazon Merc Stealth with the funky "gaming terrain" keys. Or maybe just buy the even wackier Wolf King Warrior game keyboard disc thing.

Almost worth it just for the hilarious name alone.



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IllegalPaladin on 23 October 2008

I don't really get the point of a gaming keyboard, I feel that a gaming mouse is good enough for a good optical DPI and pads. Then again, I've been using the same keyboard since 2003 lol.



salaminizer on 23 October 2008

I can't give an unbiased opinion so I won't even get in the discussion about keyboard vs. analog, but I have to say my opinion about the 3-fingers issue. I can't imagine having the thumb + free fingers in the back (which you DON'T SEE) being better than having 3 fingers alternating the movement + being able to hit more ~10 keys with other 3-4 fingers (considering you use 2 fingers at most to move).

 



the words above were backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS!

greenmedic88 on 23 October 2008

Based on what I've been reading, a lot of the point behind "gaming keyboards" is simple marketing, much like gaming cases.

Emphasize looks, style, add colorful backlighting and give it a kewl name like "Wolf King Warrior" or "Merc Stealth."

Although both of those actually have dedicated left hand pads with key layouts ideal for FPS games as well as most other PC games.

But for most keyboards marketed as gaming keyboards, I really can't say I see much of a difference in terms of key layout. Many just use standard layouts with additional programmable keys or macro keys.

In some cases you're paying for quality, but even with some of the pricey feature heavy models, they have quality issues when used for hundreds of hours.

Most probably hold up about as well as any cheap $20 keyboard like the one I'm currently using since my Bluetooth keyboard keeps dropping signal while I'm typing. Probably just needs new batteries, but... this is why most gamers don't use wireless input devices.

Gaming mice are a little different although the biggest difference seems to be in ergonomics, which I value. The G5 doesn't give me hand cramps in addition to all the gamer related features. I've gone through a lot of mice over time, but I think I'll be keeping the G5 if it holds up.



IllegalPaladin on 23 October 2008

Exactly, I use the G5 too. I hate the scroll wheel because it'll tilt while you try and press it down to middle click and I also hate how the wheel scrolls up and down, it doesn't register rolling it up and down constantly and feels more random (which is terrible when you want to switch weapons in games). Still, it's pro's are that it's a high DPI mouse so it works on practically ANY surface (compared to cheaper mice) and it's a nicer feel than a regular mouse.

As you mention gaming cases, while they look good, the top reason I have mine is that it has many fans for a good amount of airflow.



radha on 23 October 2008

this is like asking why astronaut use rockets and no a slingshot to go to outer space



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