MikeB said: @ kowenicki I cant say anythign else to you.. you wont have it.. except maybe "Dont believe the hype!" Well I studied the Cell a long time ago, a friend (one of the PS3coderz.com guys) also wrote some well written in depth articles on the subject. I have been a tech writer for various tech websites in the past. I don't just believe the "hype", I understand potential and roadblocks. That's why I said it would take lots of time and effort redesigning PC and PS2 game engines. But we have already come a long way (with regard to PS3 exclusive game engines). If I remeber correctly back at E3 2008 Sony themselves stated that MGS4 used 80% of the PS3 potential. It's safe to say that KZ2 will be near enough to 100% of the PS3 potential. There's a lot of untapped SPE processing potential (as for all past and even upcoming top games, including Killzone 2). MGS4 makes great use of Blu-Ray disc though. An architecture like the PS3 takes a lot of time and effort to get the most out of it, but every step forward for your game engine is a step forward you take with you while developing your next game. A quote will be helpful. Gears 2 will get the most out of the 360, any further future gains will be minor.

I was during the conference of Sony. They stood up there and said it in front of everyone watching. You can find it somewhere in Game Trailers database. The Sony Conference.

Anyhow. Gears 2 certainly isnt the game to use the most power. Fable 2 is. Gears 2 talking graphically (I'm with IGN on this) will look extremely impressive because 60fps with those textures is heavenly. KZ2 is only 30fps.

Anyways create another thread for this I could talk all day how the memory of the PS3 holds it back, but this thread is for sales and in that area the PS3 is doing poorly if it wants 2nd place.

 

At this stage in the 360's lifecycle I'd damn well expect it to be shooting away sales wise from the PS3, cos it's half the price of the PS3 (UK : £129 360 Arcade vs £299 PS3). If it wasn't, well they'd be no hope for it.

This holiday season MS will have used up all their ammo with the 360 - price is as low as it can really go without being in bargin bin territory, Gears 2, Fable 2 etc etc. PS3 meanwhile still has room for price cuts and still has some big hitters in it's arsenal - KZ2, GT5 etc. for next year (of course, MS could annouce Halo 4 for next year!).

I look forward to revisiting this thread post Xmas to see how big a lead the 360 gets, if it doesn't pull away significantly then 360 will end up on 3rd place by the end of the gen.

Press_the_Button said: At this stage in the 360's lifecycle I'd damn well expect it to be shooting away sales wise from the PS3, cos it's half the price of the PS3 (UK : £129 360 Arcade vs £299 PS3). If it wasn't, well they'd be no hope for it. This holiday season MS will have used up all their ammo with the 360 - price is as low as it can really go without being in bargin bin territory, Gears 2, Fable 2 etc etc. PS3 meanwhile still has room for price cuts and still has some big hitters in it's arsenal - KZ2, GT5 etc. for next year (of course, MS could annouce Halo 4 for next year!). I look forward to revisiting this thread post Xmas to see how big a lead the 360 gets, if it doesn't pull away significantly then 360 will end up on 3rd place by the end of the gen.

 

i have heard this since halo 3 launched its not over till consoles are no longer made

 

 

also i doubt halo 4 next year ... some halo spin off sure... but they will give halo 4 a looooong dev time and launch it with the next box around 2012-14

September being the month where 360 got a price drop in all regions &....JRPG from S-E

It managing to outsell PS3 is a shocking fact?

@ selnor

Of course that's the case for any console or computer. Be that the 360, PS3 or NeoGeo.

However the Blu-Ray storage space is much more important as well as a default harddrive (reading speed) for the long run vs the 360. The NeoGeo had very little RAM to work with compared to other systems of its time (look into it vs PC gaming), it's more about how fast you can move data around for a console than how large pieces of data can be, which could just as well be broken and processed in smaller parts.

If you come from a PC-only development background I can easily understand it if you believe the PS3 has critical memory roadblocks, but if you come from a NeoGeo, c64, Amiga, etc expert development background you will see an ocean of memory and endless opportunities to enhance data structures, processing tactics, etc. Audio and textures data usually take up the most memory space (not executables!), yet PS3 games like MGS4 are coming out for the PS3 with supreme 7.1 lossless audio and top quality assets.

Like I said some time ago I think Christmas 2009 this whole PS3 vs 360 debate will be entirely obsolete (with regard to exclusive games as well as multi-platform titles).

Press_the_Button said: At this stage in the 360's lifecycle I'd damn well expect it to be shooting away sales wise from the PS3, cos it's half the price of the PS3 (UK : £129 360 Arcade vs £299 PS3). If it wasn't, well they'd be no hope for it. This holiday season MS will have used up all their ammo with the 360 - price is as low as it can really go without being in bargin bin territory, Gears 2, Fable 2 etc etc. PS3 meanwhile still has room for price cuts and still has some big hitters in it's arsenal - KZ2, GT5 etc. for next year (of course, MS could annouce Halo 4 for next year!). I look forward to revisiting this thread post Xmas to see how big a lead the 360 gets, if it doesn't pull away significantly then 360 will end up on 3rd place by the end of the gen.

This is rediculous. No evidence to show that PS3 will pass it. All speculation. As for you saying no games left?

Lets look.

Alan Wake

Gears 3

Mass Effect 2&3

Lost Odyssey 2

Cry On

Halo Wars

FF13

Star Ocean

Bioshock 2

Forza 3

PGR 5

Halo 4

Peter Jacksons Halo Project (reports are stunning)

Splinter Cell Conviction

Huxley (long before MAG came around, Huxley was the first in development by Webzen to be over 1000 on one server MMOFPS. A note if MAG is to be good, it needs about 5 -6 years dev time. Making sure servers run well with these types of games involves mass testing. Look at the recent Warhammer Online. Nearly 5 year production. The graphics enhancements to these games normally come near the end)

M$ have also said they will announce 9 more First Party titles which some will come next year.

Yep 360 has no high budget high profile games left????? Gues I'd better sell up.

Here is Huxley

 

MikeB said: @ selnor I could talk all day how the memory of the PS3 holds it back Of course that's the case for any console or computer. Be that the 360, PS3 or NeoGeo. However the Blu-Ray storage space is much more important as well as a default harddrive (reading speed) for the long run vs the 360. The NeoGeo had very little RAM to work with compared to other systems of its time (look into it vs PC gaming), it's more about how fast you can move data around for a console than how large pieces of data can be, which could just as well be broken and processed in smaller parts. If you come from a PC-only development background I can easily understand it if you believe the PS3 has critical memory roadblocks, but if you come from a NeoGeo, c64, Amiga, etc expert development background you will see an ocean of memory and endless opportunities to enhance data structures, processing tactics, etc. Audio and textures data usually take up the most memory space (not executables!), yet PS3 games like MGS4 are coming out for the PS3 with supreme 7.1 lossless audio and top quality assets. Like I said some time ago I think Christmas 2009 this whole PS3 vs 360 debate will be entirely obsolete (with regard to exclusive games as well as multi-platform titles).

 

 Create a different thread if you want to discuss it. Your right By christmas 2009 the debate will be over, entirely obsolete. People will see there is no difference when Alan Wake, Mass Effect 2 and Peter Jacksons Halo project land. Regardless of Blu ray, HDD or DVD the CPU has to go through the memory to access the info ANY info. The Bandwidth speed of PS3 memory both reading and writing is significantly slower than 360's. Even though PS3 memory can work simultaneously with both gpu and CPU it's significantly slower. In the time it takes for the cell and RSX to recieve info to process once each, the 360 CPU can do 3 and GPU 2 in the same time period. And thats alternatively. You do the math based on Bandwidth figures.

So thats 5 read and writes alltogether for 360 in the same period as PS3 does 2. No matter what ANYONE says about the Cell it's held back by the memory speed. It cannot I repeat cannot get info to process any other way.

Ok start a new thread for this. 

@ selnor

Of course there will be new games for the 360, but looking at this from the big perspective, it's likely Halo 3 had a much bigger effect on hardware sales than a Halo 4 would have for the 360. The bulk of hardcore Halo fans already own one or more 360s, Halo 4 needs to be really amazing (unlike Halo 3, which may have dampened some people's expectations for another sequel) to draw in many new 360 owners.

Apart from Fable 2 all important XBox sequels have been released to lure XBox owners towards the 360, Microsoft needs to try a lof of new stuff. I don't think their games development teams are as powerful and creative as Sony's or even Nintendo's small skilled team.

I have no real doubt the 360 will end a distant 3rd this generation.

The charts posted here coincide perfectly with the thread I made a few days ago "The 360 is doing its job right".

MikeB said: @ selnor Of course there will be new games for the 360, but looking at this from the big perspective, it's likely Halo 3 had a much bigger effect on hardware sales than a Halo 4 would have for the 360. The bulk of hardcore Halo fans already own one or more 360s, Halo 4 needs to be really amazing (unlike Halo 3, which may have dampened some people's expectations for another sequel) to draw in many new 360 owners. Apart from Fable 2 all important XBox sequels have been released to lure XBox owners towards the 360, Microsoft needs to try a lof of new stuff. I don't think their games development teams are as powerful and creative as Sony's or even Nintendo's small skilled team. I have no real doubt the 360 will end a distant 3rd this generation.

 

 OK then after GT 5 what other big franchise does PS3 have? Ofcourse it'll have KZ 2 and Resistance 2 for now but they, like you said about the 360 are not tried and tested franchises. Final Fantasy is a 360 exclusive so you cannnot really count that in. So apart from GT 5 what else does Sony have? Ofcourse it will get new games but you know.