The Ghost of RubangB said: bigjon said: The Ghost of RubangB said: Anybody who votes based on their feelings should be fired. I'd rather have Congress-bots in there with no emotions, actually analyzing every option and choosing the best. Feelings are for babies, not for government. Call those fuckers a Waambulance, bitch pleeze.  If we took emotion out of voting, Obama would be in big trouble. Many of the people who support him do so with their hearts. He gives them a "good feeling". Notice I said alot, not all of his supporters are all emotion. But it does seem to be a pattern. Meh, those people aren't in Congress.

 

  I know. Just thought I would point that out.

bigjon said: I love how People think that Palin could not be VP because of an interview. She is lacking in foriegn policy, not a big deal she is the veep. Obama is lacking in foriegn policy too. All he has ever done is take a world tour where all he did was do what he does best... give speeches. Interviews have no bearing on how someone would do a the VP position. If McCain does keel over she will be more up to snuff by that point and she will have a Secretary of State. I really doupt that McCain is going to die in the next 4-8 years however. People have been trying to find reason to dump on Palin since she was announced. Nothing was working, I mean did you notice the 3-4 articles on troopergate before the interview that were on CNN or MSNBC.com? The left media feels like the interview has discredited her, so they have backed off. Just wait, If she does really well in the debate (I think she will) it will all be back on. Right now the media is saving their ammo for if McCain starts to regain in the polls. Palin is a smart woman, she will do just fine in the debate. And since everyone has set the bar so low she will end up blowing away expectations. Which would backfire on the media. Because is they had not trashed her CC interview to the 9th degree the expectations would not be so low. What I am saying is the weak interview might help her in the end. We shall see.

 

It's hilarious how someone who claims to have such a high inteligence can defend the uberstupidity of Palin. Saturday Night Live didn't even have to change her sentences to have a great joke.
It's not just that one interview, it's the complete ignorance of everything outside Alaska that normal people call world.

For your information: a lot of Republicans are now also worried, that not only she'll mess it up for the GOP ticket, but also is a way too dangerous choice as the VP of a 72 year old. So yeah, people ARE worrying, because what you don't see in your blind support of the Republicans is that someone like her in the highest office will hurt the image of the US in the world even further (I don't think I have to tell you that under Bush that image, even among traditional allies, isn't exactly good).

BengaBenga said: bigjon said: I love how People think that Palin could not be VP because of an interview. She is lacking in foriegn policy, not a big deal she is the veep. Obama is lacking in foriegn policy too. All he has ever done is take a world tour where all he did was do what he does best... give speeches. Interviews have no bearing on how someone would do a the VP position. If McCain does keel over she will be more up to snuff by that point and she will have a Secretary of State. I really doupt that McCain is going to die in the next 4-8 years however. People have been trying to find reason to dump on Palin since she was announced. Nothing was working, I mean did you notice the 3-4 articles on troopergate before the interview that were on CNN or MSNBC.com? The left media feels like the interview has discredited her, so they have backed off. Just wait, If she does really well in the debate (I think she will) it will all be back on. Right now the media is saving their ammo for if McCain starts to regain in the polls. Palin is a smart woman, she will do just fine in the debate. And since everyone has set the bar so low she will end up blowing away expectations. Which would backfire on the media. Because is they had not trashed her CC interview to the 9th degree the expectations would not be so low. What I am saying is the weak interview might help her in the end. We shall see.   It's hilarious how someone who claims to have such a high inteligence can defend the uberstupidity of Palin. Saturday Night Live didn't even have to chance her sentences to have a great joke. It's not just that one interview, it's the complete ignorance of everything outside Alaska that normal people call world. For your information: a lot of Republicans are now also worried, that not only she'll mess it up for the GOP ticket, but also is a way too dangerous choice as the VP of a 72 year old. So yeah, people ARE worrying, because what you don't see in your blind support of the Republicans is that someone like her in the highest office will hurt the image of the US in the world even further (I don't think I have to tell you that under Bush that image, even among traditional allies, isn't exactly good).

She is not a stupid woman. That is just what you want to believe so fine. My point was everyone is judging her by and interview, and interview filled with gotcha questions. She is new to the national scene, she has not had 3 years of campaigning like BO to think of really cool intelliegent sounding answers to everything. Especially specifics about McCain voting record on deregulation. Also, if she bombs the debate, I will be worried too, just like I would with ANY canidate, Mccain looks like a dumbass in the next debate I will begin to try and tell myself Obama is not the end of the world (I hoping it does not come to that).

Also as far as Republicans calling for Palin to be dumped... Did you know that dems are doing the same thing for Biden? Yea, 30 years in the senate super intelliegent biden. People want Obama to dump biden after the debate and pick Hilary. It is kinda like no matter what in sports, unless you are undefeated people are still going to call for the coaches head. In Pres elections you cannot dump the Pres nom, but the Veep can be dumped (has happened before).... And it was part of the reason we got Nixon....

 

bigjon said: The Ghost of RubangB said: Anybody who votes based on their feelings should be fired. I'd rather have Congress-bots in there with no emotions, actually analyzing every option and choosing the best. Feelings are for babies, not for government. Call those fuckers a Waambulance, bitch pleeze.    If we took emotion out of voting, Obama would be in big trouble. Many of the people who support him do so with their hearts. He gives them a "good feeling". Notice I said alot, not all of his supporters are all emotion. But it does seem to be a pattern.

Because Republicans obviously never stir up anti-abortion sentiments, anti-foreign sentiments, racist sentiments, relgious sentiments, faux-patriotic sentiments, fearful sentiments, anti-government sentiments, and even anti-female sentiments.

Seriously bigjon, quit blaming Democrats for the same things that the Republican party is as guilty or more guilty of doing.

 

Is The Speaker of the House supposed to be impartial in the US? If so, she clearly did a terrible job, but if she isn't then I really don't see any problem with that speech.

BengaBenga said: bigjon said: I love how People think that Palin could not be VP because of an interview. She is lacking in foriegn policy, not a big deal she is the veep. Obama is lacking in foriegn policy too. All he has ever done is take a world tour where all he did was do what he does best... give speeches. Interviews have no bearing on how someone would do a the VP position. If McCain does keel over she will be more up to snuff by that point and she will have a Secretary of State. I really doupt that McCain is going to die in the next 4-8 years however. People have been trying to find reason to dump on Palin since she was announced. Nothing was working, I mean did you notice the 3-4 articles on troopergate before the interview that were on CNN or MSNBC.com? The left media feels like the interview has discredited her, so they have backed off. Just wait, If she does really well in the debate (I think she will) it will all be back on. Right now the media is saving their ammo for if McCain starts to regain in the polls. Palin is a smart woman, she will do just fine in the debate. And since everyone has set the bar so low she will end up blowing away expectations. Which would backfire on the media. Because is they had not trashed her CC interview to the 9th degree the expectations would not be so low. What I am saying is the weak interview might help her in the end. We shall see.   It's hilarious how someone who claims to have such a high inteligence can defend the uberstupidity of Palin. Saturday Night Live didn't even have to change her sentences to have a great joke. It's not just that one interview, it's the complete ignorance of everything outside Alaska that normal people call world. For your information: a lot of Republicans are now also worried, that not only she'll mess it up for the GOP ticket, but also is a way too dangerous choice as the VP of a 72 year old. So yeah, people ARE worrying, because what you don't see in your blind support of the Republicans is that someone like her in the highest office will hurt the image of the US in the world even further (I don't think I have to tell you that under Bush that image, even among traditional allies, isn't exactly good).

 

 I really loved this quote I heard yesterday on CNN:

"If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself."

bigjon said: I love how People think that Palin could not be VP because of an interview. She is lacking in foriegn policy, not a big deal she is the veep. Obama is lacking in foriegn policy too. All he has ever done is take a world tour where all he did was do what he does best... give speeches. Interviews have no bearing on how someone would do a the VP position. If McCain does keel over she will be more up to snuff by that point and she will have a Secretary of State. I really doupt that McCain is going to die in the next 4-8 years however. People have been trying to find reason to dump on Palin since she was announced. Nothing was working, I mean did you notice the 3-4 articles on troopergate before the interview that were on CNN or MSNBC.com? The left media feels like the interview has discredited her, so they have backed off. Just wait, If she does really well in the debate (I think she will) it will all be back on. Right now the media is saving their ammo for if McCain starts to regain in the polls. Palin is a smart woman, she will do just fine in the debate. And since everyone has set the bar so low she will end up blowing away expectations. Which would backfire on the media. Because is they had not trashed her CC interview to the 9th degree the expectations would not be so low. What I am saying is the weak interview might help her in the end. We shall see.

From what I've been reading, more and more people (now including republicans) are calling on McCain to dump Palin. She's a liability, and the campaign is treating her as one (they rarely let her speak in public, and the last time they did McCain was there looking like a protective father or older brother).

 

ssj12 said: First lets go back to my comment on wealth for a second. Palin has never been introduced to as high of a salary as a senator has. She only knows how much a governer does and that shouldnt be "close" to what our senators are getting paid.

Here is an article about governor salaries.  It's from mid 2007 so it should be reasonably accurate still and it appears Sarah Palin gets around $125,000.  And according to this Todd Palin's fishing company and BP job brought in a little under $100,000 for him.  So the Palins as of 2007 made around $225,000.  According to the US Census Bureau the top 1.5% make around $250,000, exactly where the Palins are at.  Clearly they aren't your average middle class family.  And this is without any investments considered.  The Palins asked for and recieved an extension to disclose their finances till the day after her debate.  It seems obvious there is something in there she would rather not be public knowledge before she debates Biden.

And as to how close it is to senators, it depends on your definition of "close".  I already showed above that the governor of Alaska makes $125,000.  According to the official senate website senators make $165,000 a year currently.  Party leaders make slightly more.

As far as Senator Biden goes, he is considered one of the poorest Senators.  Along with his wife, a teacher who makes $66,000 a year they made $320,000 last year which includes $70k from his recent book.  As it says on that CNN article the Bidens routinely make around $250,000 a year the same as the Palins currently.

Senator Obama as we all know got millions from his books but that just recently got them in a position to pay off their student loans and finally no longer be in debt.  If you're not considering Palin out of touch for her recent financial success propelling her to the top 1.5% it would be hypocritical to hold it against Obama.

ssj12 said: You made the comment on the last 8 years, Bush can't really be considered the common man. Why? he owns a freaking oil field. How many common folks in America own oil fields? I'm going to say pretty much none, past those people who found a touch of oil in their backyards a month back. Typically one who owns an oil field forgets what its like to be a common laborer. Bush is an even greater example because he went through being spoiled by his father. He probably knows the meaning of work but really never had a major hand in doing much of it.

As far as my comment on Bush.  I wasn't clear on what I was trying to say.  I didn't mean Bush was a common man.  I know the Bush dynasty is way out of touch.  His dad was mocked during his presidential campaign for a photo op at a grocery store when he clearly had no idea what it was like in there and acted surprised over the smallest things.  What I meant was that the common man voted for Bush because he seemed closer to them in personality.  People routinely said how unlike Gore, Bush seemed like somebody you could have a beer with.  He's clearly a rich elite but people connected with how the Texas rancher was "one of them" even though nothing could have been further from the truth.

ssj12 said: Palin on the other hand knows what a real wage is. Due to the fact she worked with the common laborer and never really got her feet wet per se with the government's greedy so she can understand what people are going through. --- Obama might have seen the extreme poor of the poor but frankly the poor doesnt make up the entire country. There is a middle class that needs to get find jobs so that they can keep from becoming the poor. Obama doesnt seem to understand this. His policies will tax the middle class more than the upper class which deserve to be taxed. Obama's change is nothing more than a fresh coat of paint over Democrat viewpoints.

So in the first part you say Palin can associate with common laborers since she worked with them.  Fair enough.  But she is well above them in pay scale and lifestyle now.  And Obama didn't go from dirt poor living on food stamps to rich elite overnight.  For the last decade or so he hadn't paid off his student loans but he wasn't dirt poor while he was an Illinois Senator.  Like I said earlier if you aren't holding it against Palin for no longer earning amongst the common laborers Obama should get credit for all the time he spent below the top 1% of earners as well.

ssj12 said: On to the topic of Palin's intelligence. She might not be the sharpest tool in the shed but frankly she solved a ton of Alaska's problems. She also can probably pronounce nuclear which is a great step up from Bush. What we need is someone who isnt experienced so that instead of looking at something as a politician, well an experienced party breed politician anyways, she can think more in the common laborer's frame of mind as thats what America basically is made of. Common laborers. She can get down with the bases of this country and understand and speak the same language.

Her lack of experience should not be considered an asset.  It would be delusional to think she could make important policy changes based off of simply her own personal views.  All presidents look to their cabinet and advisors before making any decisions.  Qualified candidates like McCain or Obama would be able to weigh their advisors' opinions along with their own and make a decision.  Whereas with Palin, as clueless as she is, she'd be even more of a puppet for whoever gets thrown onto her cabinet and any connection she has to the common people would be irrelevant.

There is a certain ammount of truth in what bigjon is saying ...

If you took the smartest and most poised person that you have ever met in your life and suddenly dropped them into the middle of a presidential campaign it is highly likely that they would make some amazingly large mistakes that would make them seem foolish too. Even Obama, Biden and McCain (along with all of the other presidential candidates) have made some very large mistakes that have made them seem foolish; the difference between their mistakes and Palin's is that there seems to be a segment of the population who are going out of their way to absolutely destroy Palin, which is something I have never seen before.

Now, I'm starting to think that the lack of experience dealing with such a public campaign may have been reason enough to choose a running mate other than Palin; but I think the damage she has done to the campaign is dramatically overstated. If you look at how close this race is, right now a 2% swing in a couple of states would result in John McCain becomming the next president ...

HappySqurriel said: There is a certain ammount of truth in what bigjon is saying ... If you took the smartest and most poised person that you have ever met in your life and suddenly dropped them into the middle of a presidential campaign it is highly likely that they would make some amazingly large mistakes that would make them seem foolish too. Even Obama, Biden and McCain (along with all of the other presidential candidates) have made some very large mistakes that have made them seem foolish; the difference between their mistakes and Palin's is that there seems to be a segment of the population who are going out of their way to absolutely destroy Palin, which is something I have never seen before. Now, I'm starting to think that the lack of experience dealing with such a public campaign may have been reason enough to choose a running mate other than Palin; but I think the damage she has done to the campaign is dramatically overstated. If you look at how close this race is, right now a 2% swing in a couple of states would result in John McCain becomming the next president ...

 

There's a difference between making mistakes and looking stupid and ignorant which accomplished perfectly.