I fail to see how we disagree.

I should mention that in my orignial post I meant specifically chronic poverty. Like you said, for most who find themselves in sudden poverty, they get back on their feet fairly quickly. Those who are chronically poor are 9 out of 10 times victims of themselves.

If anything, the fact that someone who lost everything can bounce back in a couple months speaks more to my point. Why are they able to bounce back? Is it work ethic, education, the ability to manage a budget?

For people who have been dealt a bad hand then yes the bolded statement is very much a fact. Rugged individualism I believe is what they called it which is best characterized by a man during the depression, holding a sign that says "I don't want a handout, I just want to work."

The worst thing about our welfare policy and workers comp is that so many ppl refuse to help themselves or blatantly lie about illnesses or injuries that prevent them from doing a job. Countless cases have been tried regarding the abuse of workers compensation in my local govt.

As far as Obama being compared to Mandela. You would be shot if you said that in the wrong place. Race should be a deciding factor in a presidential election. Don't think for second that the democratic party isnt going to use race as a means of getting votes (they already have) and frankly saying that Obama is the next Mandela is downright insulting to many ppl of all races.

Our welfare system is severely flawed for the above reason. So many people live off of it because they can, not because they have too.

I used to wash windows for a living, and I worked with a guy who got a job with the company I worked for. He was on goverment assisted living, that is to say they were paying his rent and giving him and his family (wife and two kids) foodstamps for groceries. The guy was the laziest SOB I have ever seen. He whined constantly about how it was hard work, or the bushes are scratching his legs, or it's hot outside. Eventually he went down to 3 days a week so he could "focus on his religion" more. (not a slight against, religion, just against this guy)

About a week later the company got a call from somebody that worked for the government asking how many hours a week he works. My boss answered "24" (3 days a week) the goverment worker said "are you sure, he says inclimate weather could force him to work as few as 15 hours a week." My boss disagreed said that there is plenty of work to do, there wouldn't be any circumstances in which he would work less than 24 hours a week unless he just didn't come in". The goverment worker then tried to haggle saying "are you sure? Because if he's working 24 hours a week his rent will be 300 dollars, and that's alot of money for somebody working part time." This worker was TRYING to get this lazy ass lower rent because he no doubt made up some sob story for the lady. My boss didn't budge on it.

A week later he put in his two weeks notice, and then proceeded to call in sick for two weeks. Then a week after that another goverment employee called asking questions trying to get him on unemployment. There was nothing wrong with the guy, he's just a lazy asshole, and my tax money was paying for his rent. His house was nicer than my apartment too. I was busting my butt, and he was getting the government to give him a free ride.

I don't think hand outs should be given either, but I still think help needs to be given. But more of "help them to help themselves" sort of help. Make going to a technical college easier for the poor. Job placement programs, support groups. Not just "You don't want to work? Here's a house to live in."

seconded.

@stof

I didn't say it jokingly, I meant it.

I meant the "I'm a dick" part. I truly believe that you meant that moronic shit seriously.

I'm hope for hoping change hope. If we hope hard enough for change maybe we can hope the world into changing. I hope.

I give this thread a 9.4.

I just downloaded my Obama 08 gamerpic for my Xbox Live profile and changed the motto to "Yes We Can!"

Join me!

It's in marketplace under new releases: gamerpics: rock the vote.

(And yes, there is a McCain one too, if you like, along with a "I registered" one).

This is the second worst thing I have ever bothered to read.

@Vagabond.

That story sounds horrible. I think the worst I've personally ecountered went like this:

It was about 1.5 years ago when I was an unpaid clinical intern. Since I could not afford traditional insurance, I decided to buy a HDHP just in case something catastrophic happened. Well, of course, I got sick and had to go see my physician as a self pay, meaning it would cost me about $120 + medicine. So as I'm checking out there is a guy in front of me (and I am not exagerating) wearing expensive name brand cloths, a blackberry, a bluetooth headset, has a PSP strapped to his belt, and was wearing expensive name brand shoes. In other words, on his person, he had well over $500 in merchendise. And take a wild guess what he says to the check-out nurse. Can you Guess???

Yep, he filed medicaid.

and then drove off in his BMW.

LOL, still pisses me off.

And if Rock_on thinks your backward, you know your bad.