Yea, it is very hard to really understand what people mean when they say a certain game isn't hardcore. Between a Catz game and Devil May Cry, it is pretty clear but between Mario Kart and Halo it isn't. Not all games can be blood, gore and guns =\

 I didn't know those were hyped hardcore games.

And seeing by sales numbers of those games it looks like I'm not the only one.........

 I didn't know those were hyped hardcore games.

And seeing by sales numbers of those games it looks like I'm not the only one.........

Unfortunately, your posts reeks of graphics whorism.  The Wii has unseen graphical potential that, luckily, The Conduit, MadWorld, and some other upcoming titles are finally showing us.  Do you look at GC or Xbox graphics and think, "wow, those are all totally crappy now--I am that blind."?  You're focused way, way too much on graphics.  Granted, they're important, but if Devil May Cry 5 actually ended up on the Wii and played like a dream, would you really bitch and moan just because it doesn't look quite as good as it would on the X360 or PS3?  Really?

The only reasons the Wii isn't benefitting the hardcore more are the following:

1.  Moronic third party companies not getting it, and not giving us what we want.

2.  Ignorant "hardcore" or Pop gamers being too focused on graphics and not giving the Wii a chance.

Mario's spin move was actually very precise in SMG.  I never had a problem with it.  Sonic and Nights--pass.  Sega rushed them to meet deadlines rather than delaying them to get out kinks.  Sega has been pretty bad at maintaining their franchises the past few years.  You can hardly blame the Wii for Sega's failings.  That's foolhardy.

And what's this I hear about the DS not being hardcore?  I'm pretty sure that the DS (outside of the TurboGrafx selection on the Wii VC) is getting flooded with shmups--one of the most classically hardcore genres.  Also, there's this little thing called Contra 4 and the vast, vast wealth of RPG's and JRPG's on the system.  I'm pretty sure those are all hardcore games.  I doubt the DS can be blamed on killing PSP support since PSP support was never super-strong to begin with.  It launched with little more than PS2 ports and when broken down to it's core, fails to actually offer anything new.  The DS is successful because it offers something new.   Because it's cheaper to develop games for.  Because it's selling better.  Because it's better with batteries (early PSP's would barely last 2 hours per charge, compared to the roughly 10 the fat DS got; the DSlite gets around 15 hours per charge depending on screen brightness).  Because it's more compact and easier to take care of the screens.

The Wii benefits the industry as a whole as it brings in new people to the fold.  Many of these noobs will become regular gamers which, in the long run, will benefit everyone as, no doubt, some of them will move on to playing other systems at some point.  The Wii's hardcore potential hasn't been tapped in even the slightest sense by anyone besides Nintendo.  And then, when we did get something (like No More Heroes), too many people whined and complained that it was too simplistic in some regards.  If gamers want the Wii to benefit hardcore gaming, they need to speak with their wallets and actually support the goddamn hardcore efforts put into the system.  I have less disposable income than most people on here, and I still buy the hardcore games.  I've pretty much sworn off 1st party wares after SSBB because I want to focus on what's important to the Wii.

Which is buying more hardcore games so that companies will make more hardcore games which will benefit everyone.

It hurts the insecure adolescent males who call themselves "hardcore," but frankly they need to be hurt. They've been killing this industry for way too long by driving everyone else away.

Exactly.

I really don't care( or maybe I do) if it hurts the little "hardcore" gamers, it's not my problem they only like certain types of games, it's their loss really if they can't look farther then were thier nose quits.

Allow me to clarify. I meant that the graphical difference between Xbox and GC is roughly (as far as I can see) the same ammount of graphical difference between the Xbox and the Wii. I am not saying Xbox=Wii.

So you think that the PS3 and 360 will be fine, and that the Wii will capture almost all of the nonhardcore gamers, and will find inventive new ways to play their first party games with the Wii remote that both casuals and hardcore will enjoy? That is what I hope will happen aswell, though I am unsure. I still belive that some games are better with the Wii remote, some are worse, and some are just different.

My most anticipated game right now is Pikmin 3, becuase I loved 1 and 2 and I know that Pikmin will be better with the Wii remote. On the other hand, I fail to see how a game like ToS: DotNW could be better with the Wii remote than with GC controller, but perhaps it will be equally good and just different.

This is actually the concern I tried to address in my first post. Yes, it's hard to see how the wiimote can improve some genres, while it's ridiculously obvious how it'll improve others (FPS, anyone?). But I brought up the DS for precisely that reason; a year ago I would have been unable to see how a touch-only version of Ninja Gaiden would be doable, let alone fun. Now we know. Give the developers some more time to figure out the Wii, and I'm sure they'll surprise you. For instance, name a genre which you think the Wii's control will be weaker in, and we'll see what we can come up with.

Oh Soriku.

You were never a snobcore.