By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
HappySqurriel said:
cookingyourmama said:

Because their data was so good to begin with that it doesn't need changing, how about that for a possible reason. Plus like i've said before how do you know what changes have taken place at all? Do you think a multi million company with decades of tracking knowledge would come up with significantly wrong data in first place that when it gets changed it significantly changes the original ltd's?

 

I will explain it to you a different way ...

Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony all announce 100% accurate numbers which reflect the shipments of their hardware at a particular point in time; they're legally obligated to provide the most accurate numbers possible so they're very trustworthy. When you're trying to track sales to consumers what you're really trying to track is:

(Sales to Consumers) = (Shipped) - (Unsold inventory) - (unsold systems)

The unsold inventory can include the number of systems that are in retailer inventory, in transit, or possibly in the manufacturers warehouse depending on how the manufacturer handles their accounting. The size the unsold inventory is not a constant value, but it is a number which operates in a particular range depending on multiple factors; basically, a retailer is only going to accept so many consoles and a manufacturer is not going to stockpile years worth of inventory for no reason. The unsold systems include replacement systems and systems that were given away (or possibly sold through untracked channels).

Unless you track 100% of the data at the retailer's end (which no one does), or unless your analysts are surprisingly lucky (in which case they should pick lottery numbers), you will have fairly large errors in your data that need to be adjusted. If you blindly continue on without consideration of what the shipped numbers actually mean in reference to the sold to consumer without adjusting your total and methodology you will (eventually) end up with either a number of systems sold that surpass the shipment numbers, or an unsold inventory that is entirely unrealistic.

Right now your NPD numbers demonstrate (roughly) a 10% error for Wii numbers as of March 31st 2008 ... if they continue with a similar error rate eventually the number of systems they expect retailers to have in inventory will surpass the number of Wii systems sold in a year, or they will have the Wii's replacement rate at an unrealisticly high number (given that the majority of replacement systems are refurbished).

 

 

Thanks for the post, i do however know all of these processes already. My original point to all of this was whilst one tracker will have slightly different data to another having one or two console significantly different to the rest seemed wrong. If all 3 consoles were say 500,000~ above npd i wouldn't have a problem. If all consoles were 500,000~ less then npd i wouldn't have a problem but having one almost the same which means it's sold as good as nothing in any where else whilst another has +500,000 and another +750,000 seemed wrong to me.

Take the japanese numbers for example:

media create wii- 6'262'090, ps3 - 2'175'021, xbox360 - 574'746

vgchartz wii - 6,302,583, ps3 - 2,232,612, xbox360 - 618,381

You can see that all of vgchartz numbers are slightly higher, and are wii 40,000~ higher, ps3 57,000~ higher and xbox360 44,000~ higher. They are all in the same range only being 17,000 in terms of difference between the highest and lowest number. That's fine and their's no problem and if i could find famitsu's total ltd numbers i'd compare them as well and i'd find similar data.

When european numbers from chart track and gfk get released vgchartz changes their numbers to be very close to them, however when npd's numbers are very different nothing gets changed and their is a big range between how close each console is, that's my point nothing more nothing less.



Around the Network
FishyJoe said:
cookingyourmama said:

 

Ok hang on here for a second. I've been told several times in this thread that npd goes back and adjusts their data for previous months if they 'got it wrong' so therefore the total ltd that is released is wrong......yet now what you're saying is they just add it on to the next month to be reported which if that's the case then the total ltd is correct and it doesn't matter if they changed it because will still have the final total ltd.

 

Oi, I never said NPD's LTD numbers were wrong. I said your use of their statistics to prove VGC inaccurate was wrong.

 

Other people have said it not you :).



Just a couple of question...

is "America"counting Canada-USA-Mexico or just Canada+USA???
isn't"Others" counting south America too??



By me:

Made with Blender + LuxRender
"Since you can´t understand ... there is no point to taking you seriously."
FJ-Warez said:
Just a couple of question...

is "America"counting Canada-USA-Mexico or just Canada+USA???
isn't"Others" counting south America too??

 

 America is counting both North and South America as far as I know, but only ioi can really confirm this.



koffieboon said:
FJ-Warez said:
Just a couple of question...

is "America"counting Canada-USA-Mexico or just Canada+USA???
isn't"Others" counting south America too??

 

 America is counting both North and South America as far as I know, but only ioi can really confirm this.

 

I remember a couple of topics putting south america in others, but yeah, we need the boss to put some light on this...



By me:

Made with Blender + LuxRender
"Since you can´t understand ... there is no point to taking you seriously."
Around the Network

@all: just going to add one thing to this "debate":

VG does NOT track NPD - it is NOT the point of our figures. Saying they are "wrong" because they do not match NPD figures means that you don't understand how this site works.

Unless NPD ever releases figures for "Americas" in general, there can be no direct comparison anyway.

I find it perfectly reasonable that up to 700k Wii units may have been sold in the South Americas - or places not covered/tracked by NPD. This is around 5% of the total sales for the Americas in general.

Same applies to the 360 (500k), which has been out a lot longer than the other consoles.

And as for the PS3 - given its price, and that it has sold around 1/3rd the quantity that the other two consoles have sold (in NA), the 50k doesn't surprise me. It might be untracked by a small margin, but it wouldn't be more than 100k-200k (which is the same percentage as the 700k for the Wii).

...

Now lets be nice to each other, otherwise the ban hammer is coming out.



Gesta Non Verba

Nocturnal is helping companies get cheaper game ratings in Australia:

Game Assessment website

Wii code: 2263 4706 2910 1099

koffieboon said:
Although only partly related to this topic, does anybody know at what exact stage Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft count a console as being shipped and do we know if they all use the exact same stage?

Yeah, Sony *used* to use a different method (i.e. number "manufactured"), whereas both MS & Ninty used "quantities shipped to retailers" (i.e. based on paid orders from retailers, how many are actually sent to them).

So Sony could manufacture millions, store them in a warehouse (still count them as "sold") - and ship them off two years later (or whenever required).

Thank god they have changed this practice to what the industry does as normal.

...

There will always be a small number of units "in transit" (more so at busy periods, i.e. Xmas) - so sold can never equal shipped. But it can get close.

...

Does Sony "own" any of their own retail stores? I know Ninty have the few "Nintendo World" stores - they 'could' use they to inflate shipped figures (doing so would be pretty stupid, for anything else a face saving increase for fiscal result reporting).



Gesta Non Verba

Nocturnal is helping companies get cheaper game ratings in Australia:

Game Assessment website

Wii code: 2263 4706 2910 1099

shams said:
@all: just going to add one thing to this "debate":

VG does NOT track NPD - it is NOT the point of our figures. Saying they are "wrong" because they do not match NPD figures means that you don't understand how this site works.

Unless NPD ever releases figures for "Americas" in general, there can be no direct comparison anyway.

I find it perfectly reasonable that up to 700k Wii units may have been sold in the South Americas - or places not covered/tracked by NPD. This is around 5% of the total sales for the Americas in general.

Same applies to the 360 (500k), which has been out a lot longer than the other consoles.

And as for the PS3 - given its price, and that it has sold around 1/3rd the quantity that the other two consoles have sold (in NA), the 50k doesn't surprise me. It might be untracked by a small margin, but it wouldn't be more than 100k-200k (which is the same percentage as the 700k for the Wii).

...

Now lets be nice to each other, otherwise the ban hammer is coming out.

You said it all. Nice post. Irrefutiable.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.