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HappySqurriel on 03 July 2008
cookingyourmama said:
HappySqurriel said:
cookingyourmama said:

So you don't have actual proof that this generations numbers have been changed. Can you atleast prove that at some point npd have gone back and changed any of their numbers instead of just saying 'well i heard this'?

Like i posted above it's not millions of wii's it's 750,000~ and yet again your answer to the second point is you don't know and are just guessing.

So can you demonstrate that NPD doesn't follow the practice of adjusting their numbers as more accurate data comes in, which is common for all tracking firms accross all industries?

If they don't I wonder why anyone would actually pay to see their numbers ... over time the inconsistency and errors in their dataset would be (fairly) massive, their ability to accurately estimate monthly sales numbers would be reduced, and their forecasts would be off by millions of units. This is why you commonly see news releases when the government adjusts the numbers for jobs and inflation as more data comes in. Personally, if I was a CEO and was dealing with a tracking company that did not even attempt to have the most accurate and up-to-date numbers on a monthly basis I wouldn't pay the thousands of dollars to see their report.

So you don't have any proof you're just guessing. And if any adjustments did take place you have no idea what they were and are just guessing again.

 

So you don't have any proof that NPD didn't ajust the numbers, and you're just guessing that they have abandoned standard practices in order to stand besides their (rapidly) useless numbers ...

Realisticly, would you spend money on numbers that after 18 months of a systems life were already off by (over) 10%?

 



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Kasz216 on 03 July 2008
HappySqurriel said:
cookingyourmama said:

Well for starters you're just concentrating on the wii, who's to say that some how the wii numbers are right but the 360 or ps3 numbers are wrong. Who's to say that the 1 million difference isn't a combination of wii's sold in south america, wii's in transit and wii's on store shelves?

Can you explain the ps3 numbers where aparantly the ps3 has sold next to nothing in south america.

Expensive + Lack of personal piracy + Lack of Comercial piracy = poor sales in developing nations

There are many people (who I agree with) who say that music labels, movie studios, and game developers should start selling their content in developing nations at slightly higher than the cost to print the discs in order to create a legitimate market (and therefore kill the pirates). Currently, no company has taken this approach so you have the option of buying a modded system (and burning your own games), or buying stamped games for (less than) $5 ... Being that neither option works because of Blu-Ray who is going to buy a system where the games are (at least) 12 times as expensive as the competition?

 

Yep... in a lot of places modded systems are the standard... not the exception.

 



HappySqurriel on 03 July 2008
ZenfoldorVGI said:

He probably just knows the only reason you're taking this stance is because you want the PS3 to have sold more than VGChartz says that is has, so in all likelyhood, no matter how much "evidence" you present, if you were actually correct, it would be luck.

Pretty much ...

I tend to argue against anyone who's default stance is "VGChartz is overtracking the Wii and undertracking the PS3/XBox 360 because I think my favourite platform is more popular"

This is far more common from PS3 fans though ...

 



cookingyourmama on 03 July 2008
ZenfoldorVGI said:
cookingyourmama said:

1. Their was no damage control to be made in the mgs4 thread, just trolls bashing an AAA game (that has sold several million in software and atleast 200,000 in hardware) because it was released on a console they don't like .

2. Their was no conclusive proof that showed the numbers i posted were wrong, it's was just a bunch of vague guesses with nothing to back them up so how can i disprove what is not proven in the first place?

a. Please post conclusive proof that in the rest of america (a.k.a. not usa or canada) that both the wii and xbox360 sell significantly more consoles than the ps3 does, or is that just wishfull thinking by you and you pulled it out of your a**?

b. Automatically saying one consoles sales = it's shipped figure when you don't know how many consoles are in transit and how many are sat on store shelves is incredibly dumb and ignorant. The wii isn't sold out in europe or japan so assuming all the other parts that make up america apart from the usa and canada are infact sold out is dumb.

3. If their was even the slightest doubt that you are acting like a massive fanboy and anything you say should be laughed at and ignored then that last shred of hope has been taken away by your stupid statement right their.

4. I've already shown why that logic is flawed and you're coming out with yet more fanboy statements as well, the only 'damage control' i see right now is from you.

1. You're biased. MGS4's hardware selling failure was marginalized by bashing vgchartz and Nintendo. You hate nintendo and love sony. That is the real reason you even post this stuff.

2. There was no conclusive proof to show the numbers you posted were right.

a. You don't think the Wii sells more consoles than the PS3 in the americas?

b. For the Wii, shipped = sold. Newsflash.

3. It's "right there" not "right their" and while we're both fanboys here, I admit it. You simply spout false alligations towards VGChartz when it suits you. MGS4's failure and the people laughing about it got you angry, so you were gonna do something to silence them, by flaming the site, and posting NPD numbers to show us we didn't know what the hell we were talking about, and how MGS4 really sold a lot of hardware. No, you're not a fanboy at all.

4. You mean that I've posted "damage control" for VGChartz? You are saying that I've came up with excuses for VGChartz failing? I shouldn't have to. You should have just been banned. However, again, your logic is flawed, and your "responses" dont' explain anything except the fact that I'm a fanboy. However many times you've been told, and despite the obvious inconsistancies from your comparison between NPD and VGChartz, you refuse to even acknowledge they exist, instead resorting to personal attacks. This is the second post you've done it in.

 

Maybe if you just admit to me that the Wii largely beating the PS3 in all territories, I'll leave you alone, so you can get back to your trolling, lies, assumptions, and half-truths. Otherwise, you, like every other misinformed post on this forum, is stuck with Zenfoldor busting you out.

So, just fyi, if NPD and VGChartz American sales matched up, someone would be wrong, because VGChartz covers more than US and Canada. Also, VGChartz data matches up with Wii shipped info extrapolation for America, where the Wii is still supply constrained. Your assumptions end here. Deny those facts so you can get corrected, or stop posting personal flames towards me, because you lack the fortitude to deny them outright. The truth is, you can't deny them, and if they are true, your case loses all credibility, now doesnt' it?

 

Wanna try answering my questions?

1. Haha wow yet more fanboy statements, funny. Mgs4 so far has sold 200,000 extra consoles, that's good not bad and it will continue to sell more, only somebody who hates the ps3 would say that was bad. I don't hate nintendo i like good games and own all three consoles. It's a fact mgs4 is rated as an AAA and it sold well because of it.

2. The numbers i posted were usa npd+canada npd those are facts not made up. I posted the difference between these numbers and vgchartz numbers again facts not made up. I asked why the large difference between the wii and 360 numbers and not the ps3 numbers, nobody could give a conclusive answer with conclusive proof.

a. I never said it didn't sell more i said significantly sells more and you've missed the point. In north america per month the weii out sells the ps3 by anything from 3 to 4 to 1 however if these numbers are to be believed then in south america per month the wii out sells the ps3 by over 11 to 1....does that sound likely?

b. Not all around the world sold = shipped for nintendo, infact it's only north america that is correct. So until it's proven that south america is the same then it is dumb to go round saying it as fact.

3. Nope just stating the facts of numbers, sorry you don't like them. Mgs4 hasn't failed in the slightest, it has been a great success, i laugh at the people who try and say it is a faliure. I never disputed mgs4 pushing 200,000 extra ps3's by vgchartz numbers, i was commenting on the total ltd sales and the difference between the two sets of data.

4. Yikes you really went off the deep end on this one and it just shows how insecure you are about the whole thing. Why are you even bringing up that the wii outsells the ps3? That's not been the debate at all, saying "Maybe if you just admit to me that the Wii largely beating the PS3 in all territories, I'll leave you alone, so you can get back to your trolling, lies, assumptions, and half-truths" again just shows immature and biased you are, it's quite sad really. You have no idea if the wii is supply constrained in south america, you have no idea how many wii's are on store shelves at any time and you have no idea how many wii are in transit at any one time, so again you've proved nothing.



cookingyourmama on 03 July 2008
ZenfoldorVGI said:
cookingyourmama said:
FishyJoe said:
cookingyourmama said:

I posted this in another thread not so long ago:

 

Their is a big difference between vgchartz american numbers and npd's for the wii and 360 but not for the ps3. Now i'm not saying who is right and who is wrong i'm just stating the facts that the two sets of numbers are very different.

As of the end of may 2008 npd total ltd's are this:

PS3 - 4,450,000
Wii - 10,180,000
360 - 10,270,000

When you add in canada's numbers which is a combination of reported numbers and % estimates based on previous american numbers compared to the same month of canadian numbers you get:

PS3 - 4,911,806
Wii - 11,121,396
360 - 11,111,757

Now comparing that to vgchartz numbers for the same time you get:

npd+canada 4,911,806 - vgc 4,943,560 - +31,754
npd+canada 11,121,396 - vgc 11,891,587 - +770,191
npd+canada 11,111,757 - vgc 11,599,497 - +487,740

The ps3 numbers are almost identical with vgchartz being +31,754 higher

The wii ltd number is vastly above npd's ltd number at +770,191 higher. Anybody who thinks being over three quaters of a million isn't a significantly higher number needs their head checked.

The 360's number is again well above npd's ltd number at +487,740 higher. That's almost half a million.

Now if all 3 consoles were roughly the same when it came to being higher or lower to npd's numbers i wouldn't say anything but the fact their is such a huge difference is something that can't be ignored.

 

So if you take your value for America's LTD sales based on NPD at the end of may for the Wii:

11,121,396

Subtract May and April:

April: 714k
May: 675k

Subtract a 10% each month for Canada.

(714k + 675k)*.1 = 138k

That means that Amercas sales based on your calcluations for the end of March is at:

9.6 million

Do you really think there were 1 million excess Wii's either on store shelves or in shipment at the end of March in the Americas. Because that's what your analysis amounts to.

 

Well for starters you're just concentrating on the wii, who's to say that some how the wii numbers are right but the 360 or ps3 numbers are wrong. Who's to say that the 1 million difference isn't a combination of wii's sold in south america, wii's in transit and wii's on store shelves?

Can you explain the ps3 numbers where aparantly the ps3 has sold next to nothing in south america.

So in other words, after Fishy's post, you now assume the Wii numbers are right, or at least you can't refute them.

 

Nope not at all, i think you should re read all the posts again because you've got it wrong. What i originally said in the begining was if the one consoles numbers are much higher then npd's then all consoles numbers should be much higher then npd's.



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FishyJoe on 03 July 2008
cookingyourmama said:

Well for starters you're just concentrating on the wii, who's to say that some how the wii numbers are right but the 360 or ps3 numbers are wrong. Who's to say that the 1 million difference isn't a combination of wii's sold in south america, wii's in transit and wii's on store shelves?

Can you explain the ps3 numbers where aparantly the ps3 has sold next to nothing in south america.

 

Well you're free to think that there is a million unsold Wiis floating around the Americas. There is no point arguing with you if you really believe that. It's impossible to argue with someone who can't be somewhat reasonable.



cookingyourmama on 03 July 2008
HappySqurriel said:
cookingyourmama said:

Well for starters you're just concentrating on the wii, who's to say that some how the wii numbers are right but the 360 or ps3 numbers are wrong. Who's to say that the 1 million difference isn't a combination of wii's sold in south america, wii's in transit and wii's on store shelves?

Can you explain the ps3 numbers where aparantly the ps3 has sold next to nothing in south america.

Expensive + Lack of personal piracy + Lack of Comercial piracy = poor sales in developing nations

There are many people (who I agree with) who say that music labels, movie studios, and game developers should start selling their content in developing nations at slightly higher than the cost to print the discs in order to create a legitimate market (and therefore kill the pirates). Currently, no company has taken this approach so you have the option of buying a modded system (and burning your own games), or buying stamped games for (less than) $5 ... Being that neither option works because of Blu-Ray who is going to buy a system where the games are (at least) 12 times as expensive as the competition?

 

So you're saying it's only sold 32,000~ after 10 months in south america yeah sure what ever you say.

 



cookingyourmama on 03 July 2008

 

 



cookingyourmama on 03 July 2008
ZenfoldorVGI said:
cookingyourmama said:
HappySqurriel said:
cookingyourmama said:

So you don't have actual proof that this generations numbers have been changed. Can you atleast prove that at some point npd have gone back and changed any of their numbers instead of just saying 'well i heard this'?

Like i posted above it's not millions of wii's it's 750,000~ and yet again your answer to the second point is you don't know and are just guessing.

So can you demonstrate that NPD doesn't follow the practice of adjusting their numbers as more accurate data comes in, which is common for all tracking firms accross all industries?

If they don't I wonder why anyone would actually pay to see their numbers ... over time the inconsistency and errors in their dataset would be (fairly) massive, their ability to accurately estimate monthly sales numbers would be reduced, and their forecasts would be off by millions of units. This is why you commonly see news releases when the government adjusts the numbers for jobs and inflation as more data comes in. Personally, if I was a CEO and was dealing with a tracking company that did not even attempt to have the most accurate and up-to-date numbers on a monthly basis I wouldn't pay the thousands of dollars to see their report.

So you don't have any proof you're just guessing. And if any adjustments did take place you have no idea what they were and are just guessing again.

 

He probably just knows the only reason you're taking this stance is because you want the PS3 to have sold more than VGChartz says that is has, so in all likelyhood, no matter how much "evidence" you present, if you were actually correct, it would be luck.

 

I want the most accurate numbers what ever they turn out to be, your the one who is sadly turning this into fanboy wars.



cookingyourmama on 03 July 2008
HappySqurriel said:
cookingyourmama said:
HappySqurriel said:
cookingyourmama said:

So you don't have actual proof that this generations numbers have been changed. Can you atleast prove that at some point npd have gone back and changed any of their numbers instead of just saying 'well i heard this'?

Like i posted above it's not millions of wii's it's 750,000~ and yet again your answer to the second point is you don't know and are just guessing.

So can you demonstrate that NPD doesn't follow the practice of adjusting their numbers as more accurate data comes in, which is common for all tracking firms accross all industries?

If they don't I wonder why anyone would actually pay to see their numbers ... over time the inconsistency and errors in their dataset would be (fairly) massive, their ability to accurately estimate monthly sales numbers would be reduced, and their forecasts would be off by millions of units. This is why you commonly see news releases when the government adjusts the numbers for jobs and inflation as more data comes in. Personally, if I was a CEO and was dealing with a tracking company that did not even attempt to have the most accurate and up-to-date numbers on a monthly basis I wouldn't pay the thousands of dollars to see their report.

So you don't have any proof you're just guessing. And if any adjustments did take place you have no idea what they were and are just guessing again.

 

So you don't have any proof that NPD didn't ajust the numbers, and you're just guessing that they have abandoned standard practices in order to stand besides their (rapidly) useless numbers ...

Realisticly, would you spend money on numbers that after 18 months of a systems life were already off by (over) 10%?

 

So you don't have any proof then and are just guessing, sorry i asked the question and you have to come up with the proof. Who says npd's numbers are off, again you have no conclusive proof.