ive got a psp, hanvt bought i game besides for launch, saying something, im currently using it for videos its top notch :D

Well, It is more appealing to claim your console is not competing in the same market than concede not being 1st place. I think that is the point of this thread.

How many of the games that apear on the DS that would have been PSP games could it have been helped by developers? How many of games making up the DS' JRPG library would have been PSP games had the tables been turned? You can tell yourself, "Oh none of the games on the DS would have ever been put on the PSP because the DS' unique dual screen / touch screen means games have to be made specially for it", but if you're going to put a project on one console over another due to circumstances I'd imagine they'd at least want to make it fit the console. Are you telling me Dragon Quest 9 never would have gone to the PSP? FF remakes 3-6 wouldn't have gone to the PSP? Or even that Monster Hunter 3 would have never gone to the PS3 because it will use Wii motion controls? Hell we're even seeing Nippon Ichi RPGs being put on the DS.

We'll never know exactly how many games were stolen from the PSP by the DS (and sure many titles would have never been made had the DS not been the market leader), but rest assured its probably a good sized figure. While there is some validity to the Wii not competing with the 360/PS3 at this point, there is definitly no grounds to assert that the PSP isn't competing with the DS, unles of course your argument is that the PSP is first and foremost a Communications Device and Club Scene Trinket while the DS is just a Portable Video Game Console.

If Portugal doesn't beat Germany tonight, I'll say Portugal wasn't competing in the Euro 2008 cup.

Picture this: I have a DS and a PSP (I don't really, but work with me).  I am in the market for one handheld game.  I go to a game store and check out both sections.  I have my eye on New Super Mario Bros. or Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops.  I choose NSMB.

Are you honestly telling me that Sony DIDN'T just lose a sale to Nintendo?

Yes, more than half of my 20-odd DS games happen to be rated E.  I also happen to be 18 years old.  And yet NSMB, Animal Crossing, the Phoenix Wrights (rated E thru T), Bomberman, etc, all compete for my time with other 'Mature' games (which I do also play a lot of).

I'm also an ex-GB owner btw.

I think Sony has learnt a lot this generation especially the difference between "hardcore" and "casual" gamer. Kutaragi never figured this out. Also, regardless of its performance in other countries, the PSP has been outselling the DS in Japan (note that this is the country where handhelds matter the most). I know many DS owners who don't even use it to play games but all the PSP owners I know almost always also have a home console because they play games wherever they are (they're that hardcore lol). So Sony may have realized that they are really not competing with Nintendo because its obvious now that Kutaragi misread the market (don't forget that he made the PSP as well).

Still, most people whine that the wii doesn't get enough 3rd party suport for taking the PS2's place from last gen. Problem is that many actual game developers are hardcore gamers themselves and tend to think like the hardcore which favor PS360. Miyamoto on the other hand, who is Nintendo's main developer, said he rarely plays games and tends to focus on music (not exactly sure and can't remember where I read this) instead. Doesn't Miyamoto sound like a casual or even a non-gamer?

 It almost seems that Miyamoto makes great games so that nintendo may profit while some other 3rd party gurus e.g Kojima and Itagaki tend to focus more on pleasing their fans and making their artwork shine. Its like an underground hip-hop artist trying to send a message (Kojima/Itagaki)vs a POP artist like Soulja Boy(Miyamoto)

I have a DS but I wouldn't mind a PSP hmm if they shrink it more.

Picture this : Im a PSP owner and I had 2 PSPs and 2 DSs ( bothe the original and the redesign of both systems ) . When I go in store Il rather buy MPO and not NSMB . Your comparison is similar to this one : somebody goes into the shop and has an eye on a washing machine and a fridge . He chooses the fridge . They are both houshold products , but still extremely different .

Also from my ~50  PSP games I have ~20 M rated games and they often take away my gaming time from my T/E rated games . Also Im an ex-GB/GBC/GBA owner .

See , we can both do this , but the fact still remains , both systems game library is made for mostly a different crowd . Yes , they intercept ( LocoRoco/NSMB , Daxter/M64 etc. ) but overall they are almost entirely different , and even tough I know that the DS has many hardcore games , the fact still remains that the majority DS owners are softcore , Nintendogs/Imagine Babiez gamers ...

AND PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT MS SPIN, HA!

This is completely bullsh**.

I think you're missing my point--maybe I'm not communicating it properly.

I'll use your example, if someone goes into a shop, knowing that they need a washing machine and a fridge, but can only afford one.  After looking at all the models for both machines, he makes the decision that, at this point, it's more important to have something that keeps his food cold than something that cleans his clothes, so he buys a nice refrigerator.  The man found them important enough to consider the same market (household necessities), but he decided the fridge was better for his needs at the time.

Just as I might decide to play NSMB over MGS:PO (or vice versa).  I like both games at different times ('Intense' vs. 'Happy').  Since I thought about both of them, but decided on one, the other lost out on a sale.  That is the very definition of competition in the marketplace.

Well, I am sure they are competeting. Ever since I bought a PSP, I have bought no new DS games. I also chose Patapon over proffesor Lanton and the Curious Village...
So they are competeting. PSP is just trying to compete with iPod and DS at the same time, and is losing to both.