masterb8tr said: Its important that you add in my opinion shio, your presenting your opinions like they're pure facts. I actually liked MGS2 better than MGS1. Heres the link to the source btw: http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-patriots/news/metal-gear-solid-4-the-first-review-is-out/a-20080512143146234035/g-20051216153655522074/p-3

The presentation of a lengthy story through only non-interactive design is terrible - depending on the gameplay proportions ofcourse (if the game is 200h with 10h of cutscenes is ok). The majority of Gamers don't want to watch the "movie"... they want to play the "movie".

Some developers are trying to make the games more like a movie than a game: Kojima seems to be one of them. he tries to make an "Epic" story, but cutscenes abuse disrupts the coherence, balance, atmosphere and can be very anti-climatic after you had an epic boss fight, only to get plastered with 15min of cutscenes. That is why I mentioned Deus Ex and Half-Life:

Deus Ex - a story heavy game, where the main story's 'dialogue scenes' are no more than 2-3min each. Not only is the game much deeper than the entire MGS series, but Deus Ex also shows how to make a balance between the story and gameplay. And a sizeable part of the story is actually optional.

Half-life 2 - Amazing story, almost everything is optional. I'm not saying Kojima should try to copy how Valve does, but he could learn from them on how to not force the story down the players' throats so much. He could've just made a part of the story optional, but still near the players if he wishes so. 

I don't, and never will, trust exclusive or first-hand reviews. Especially when he answers like this:

GR: You said in your review that MGS4 isn't perfect. What were your biggest complaints with it, and why did those issues disappoint you? Any major flaws?

PF: I think the game's ending suffers from the Return Of The King syndrome in that it keeps ending when it should really draw a line earlier on. That's the main one for me. Also, the 'togglable' auto-aim isn't always as smart at locking on as it should be in those situations where it really makes sense that you use it.

 

GR: Why weren't those problems enough to stop you giving the game a 10/10 rating?

PF: For me, like the greatest films, it's outstanding because of, and not despite, its idiosyncrasies and flaws. It's the expression of one very creative person's vision and to see that undiluted with all it's eccentricities and genius intact is remarkable. It's also a cracking story and truly rewarding to play.

 

Bam. 

Well there you go:)

shio said: Riachu said: Words Of Wisdom said: Riachu said: dtewi said: Soriku, it's ironic you're saying that cutscenes are bad. Didn't we watch half of Kingdom Hearts II? Yes we did. Kingdom Hearts II was a very story heavy game. Lenghty cutscenes IMO are not that bad if the story is good. When did "very story heavy" come to mean "lengthy cutscenes?" Story heavy means that there is a lot of cutscenes and look at the examples. i.e. Xenosaga, Xenogears, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy X, Kingdom Hearts II They all have lenghty cutscenes   And none of those have a great story. Kojima is doing the mistake of presenting MGS4's story like a movie rather than an interactive experience. He did it pretty good on MGS1 with a good balance, but the rest afterwards has shown he does not know how to incorporate a story-centric design in an action game. He should've just looked at Deus Ex to see how to not rely only on cutscenes/dialogue scenes to tell the entire story. Even better if he looked at the Half-Life series. 9h of cutscenes is overkill.

You are the first person on the internet to say Xenogears's story isn't great.  Is cutscenes a really bad thing? Cutscenes will only be bad if there isn't enough gameplay IMO

shio, you know, not everyone likes what you like. I hate the way HL2 tells things. The story sucks if you don't find optional things and although I do search every single place I find in every game, I find it too hard to actually find much of a story in HL2. Low-resolution pictures blending in the environment isn't exactly what I call good storytelling. I want much story and I want to have most of it easily. Optional parts are also great but it can be done wrong, and the main plot should already tell pretty much.

shio said: [nothing of consequence]

Bam nothing. NOTHING. Kojima tries and succeeds to tell some of the most epic stories in gaming.  If you don't like the way they are implemeted, fine. Your preference for mix of cutscene and gameplay to let players experience an interactive story is not authoritative. What fanboy FUD of you to object so hard, like what you say matters. MGS3 is especially beloved by a vast majority of fans, and your denigration of 2 and 3 just point to the obvious: you are pouring out spiteful opinion here, and nothing more.

 

? 9 hours. Is that right. God I hope not. 3 hours max is abut my limit. Hell 9 hours is more than JRPg's. hmmm.

Does anyone agree that games with a lot of cut scenes tend to be more linear?

Roland said: Does anyone agree that games with a lot of cut scenes tend to be more linear?

 Pretty much all games with a lot of cutscenes tend to be more linear

Riachu said: shio said: Riachu said: Words Of Wisdom said: Riachu said: dtewi said: Soriku, it's ironic you're saying that cutscenes are bad. Didn't we watch half of Kingdom Hearts II? Yes we did. Kingdom Hearts II was a very story heavy game. Lenghty cutscenes IMO are not that bad if the story is good. When did "very story heavy" come to mean "lengthy cutscenes?" Story heavy means that there is a lot of cutscenes and look at the examples. i.e. Xenosaga, Xenogears, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy X, Kingdom Hearts II They all have lenghty cutscenes   And none of those have a great story. Kojima is doing the mistake of presenting MGS4's story like a movie rather than an interactive experience. He did it pretty good on MGS1 with a good balance, but the rest afterwards has shown he does not know how to incorporate a story-centric design in an action game. He should've just looked at Deus Ex to see how to not rely only on cutscenes/dialogue scenes to tell the entire story. Even better if he looked at the Half-Life series. 9h of cutscenes is overkill. You are the first person on the internet to say Xenogears's story isn't great. Is cutscenes a really bad thing? Cutscenes will only be bad if there isn't enough gameplay IMO

Xenogears' really isn't great, especially when compared to the best RPG stories ever, such as Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1 and Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer. But that is my opinion.

I'm not saying cutscenes is bad, far from that. What I wrote was that when cutscenes take a BIG amount of gametime, it hurts the game experience. Instead, Kojima should have found ways to disperse some of the more unnecessary parts of the story, if he couldn't remove it at all.

Maybe MGS4's story is actually a good one, but having 1 third of the game non-interactive is not praise-worthy.

 

Loud_Hot_White_Box said: shio said: [nothing of consequence] Bam nothing. NOTHING. Kojima tries and succeeds to tell some of the most epic stories in gaming. If you don't like the way they are implemeted, fine. Your preference for mix of cutscene and gameplay to let players experience an interactive story is not authoritative. What fanboy FUD of you to object so hard, like what you say matters. MGS3 is especially beloved by a vast majority of fans, and your denigration of 2 and 3 just point to the obvious: you are pouring out spiteful opinion here, and nothing more.

So I should give up on what I think and follow the opinions of people, whom are majorly composed of gamers who never even played an Adventure game or a western RPG, the 2 genres that are known to produce the best stories in videogaming?

I don't hate Kojima or anything. I thoroughly enjoyed MGS1, and I loved Snatcher even though it was a bit on the generic side; but I'm not going to say that his games were flawless. Atleast I tried to explain my point instead of shouting "FUD fanboy alert, zomg!" like you did.

 

 

I don't see why people are worried whether this development will be good or bad, even if this game should for whatever dissapoint or fall flat, its sales the first week will be more than enough to justify the game's production. Konami and Sony will have made thier money, and that should be enough to satisfy anyone.

The fact of the matter is, this game could have 60 hours plus of actual gameplay and people would find a reason to complain about it. And by the reverse this game could be nothing but cutscenes with no gameplay what-so-ever and people would still find a reason to act like it will be the best MGS ever.

Let the game and its reviews speak for themselves when it comes out. ;)