Well, I agree that the Wii need more 3rd party support (that is quality support). However, that is not Nintendo fault. Remember Miyamoto`s saying that 3rd parties that expect to do well should not use their 3rd tier teams on the development?

First of all, they can't just 'get' current-gen graphics without releasing a completely new system. That would be a monumentally stupid move.

However, with any luck, Conduit will sell well, its' engine will be licensed out, and others like it will be made. From the tech demo, it seems like Wii is in fact capable of churning out very respectable 'realistic' graphics. I know I would buy as many of these types of games as I could .

Second, I don't mean to be rude, but what hole have you been living in? In addition to WoW's graphs (awesome, btw ), third parties have some monster games coming out, many of the multiplats of which are actually getting some thought now.

-Conduit
-Star Wars Force Unleashed (with exclusive multiplayer)
-Fatal Frame IV
-Monster Hunter
-Alone in the Dark
-Street Fighter
-DC vs. MK, Hulk
-Iron Man
-Spider-Man
-Rock Band
-Guitar Hero 4 and Aerosmith
-the Harry Potter games are being focussed around Wii now
-Boom Blox
-Earthworm Jim
-lots of more casual games
-Tons of dev. support for Wiiware

Considering that this support was largely lacking in the first year, and they still dominated, I'd say Nintendo is in FINE shape Not just that, but you can bet your ass that big third-party games will, along with some heavy-hitting first-party games, dominate E3 this year.

I doubt you're a Wii lover.

Any Wii lover woud know, graphics aren't important as long as you can comprehend the picture.

The wii needs more story driven games, for the hardcore.

So when is E3? It's interesting that Rol and everyone else keep saying "wait until E3." Well, I'm tired of waiting.

How can you be a Nintendo lover and just now be getting tired of the third party support? If you are a Nintendo lover you should be in joy that this is the first console since the SNES that 3rd parties are taking seriously. There is no way you are a Nintendo fan. If you were, you would remember the N64 when there was NO 3rd party support. Or the GC which was better than the 64 but still wrotted.

Thanks for the graphs, haven't seen them before. Saved this thread from being totally pointless.

WoW wins the thread, and the forums.

Aww, I wanted to post the pretty charts! Seriously though, if you want Nintendo to attract more third party support, having High Definition graphics like Microsoft and Sony may be the worst thing they can do. Yes, I remember Epic Games' little diatribe about "moving forward" and whatnot, but you have to realize that they're the exception rather than the rule. Epic Games primarily sells game engines with cutting-edge graphics, with their games meant primarily to hawk the engines.

By contrast, most third party developers are being priced out of the market by having to produce "current-gen" graphics. Ubisoft has gone on record as saying that their 360 and PS3 games cost between $19 million to $28 million to make, while those for the Wii are between $8 and $9 million. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18389

Much of the discrepancy comes from the fact that high-definition graphics take more time and expertise to produce, which in turn means more money. Lots of it. Most of the smaller and mid-sized developers simply can't afford to play by those rules. Even if they tried, they'd go out of business the first time one of their games flopped. But don't take my word for it: let the developers speak for themselves.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=1824

When asked about the decision to make Mushroom Men for the Wii (and DS) rather than the 360 or PS3, the developer replied "(B)udget comes into play. When you’re a new studio and you’re asking someone for four million, that’s a lot easier sell than asking them for twelve. It just comes down to numbers and risk assessment. So that’s the reason we chose that console...Wii development is easily one fourth, one fifth, even one sixth of some 360, PS3 projects, and those projects are easier to sell to developers, and they’re also a shorter timeframe to get the game out."

In other words, the Wii's graphical weaknesses may actually prove to be one of its long-term strengths when it comes to third parties. This is especially true for newcomers, who probably can't afford to make games for the HD consoles even if they wanted to. Not convinced that this is enough to entice developers onto the Wii yet? It's already been happening.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18144

"Hudson Soft have spoken of plans to increase the company’s profits by almost 400 percent within three years, by focusing on titles for the Wii... Hudson will release eight titles for the Wii in 2008...The move comes after operating profits rose 53 percent...(t)his was attributed primarily to stronger than expected sales on the Wii and Nintendo DS.

Hudson has gone from being dead in the water to becoming a rather profitable company, and they're attributing almost all of that to making games on Nintendo platforms. Other formerly deceased companies, most notably Interplay, have been rumored to have Wii games in development for precisely this reason. A lot of third parties seem unable to resist hopping on the Wii bandwagon. You may have noticed the name High Voltage being thrown around the internet recently. Despite the fact that they've existed for several years, it is only now that they're doing original stuff that they're becoming the darling of the 'net. And what platform did they choose to make their debut? You got it. It's obvious that the Wii's graphical short-comings can ultimately pay dividends for third parties, and this is before we take into account the upcoming WiiWare games, where the lion's share of developers are small companies, often with less than twenty employees.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/080425/05.html

From the mouth of Iwata himself: "I would like to note the fact that a number of small-sized developers are proactively entering into this business by sensing the business potential of WiiWare.
Companies with less than 20 employees comprise 56% of the total number of companies which have so far decided to make WiiWare software. When we look at the percentage of the companies with 50 employees or less, they constitute three quarters of all. "

WiiWare has already unleashed a flood of new console developers. The old days of three guys in their basement making a commercially successful game may be returning because of the Wii. And I'm not speaking figuratively. Witness World of Goo, one of the most anticipated WiiWare titles, and one whose development team is a whopping three people. So I would say that no, Nintendo does not currently have to do anything to entice third party support, except to keep doing what they're doing.

And as a sidenote, can someone please tell me where I can find a FAQ on how to use this site? My attempts to embed images meet with the same results as everything I do in life, i.e. total failure. Thanks in advance. Oh, and sorry for the long post. I ramble. A lot.

3rd party support will only increase as time goes on. 3rd parties follow the money train and this generation that's Nintendo. However it doesn't happen overnight. Look at how many PS3 games that we knew about PRIOR to launch STILL haven't been released: GT5, MGS4, FFXIII, etc. As Mike_intellivision noted, everyone expected Sony to dominate again and gambled on them. Too late did they realize their mistakes. Now as games finally finish those teams will be put to work on Wii titles (not all of course, there is still money in 360/PS3) but then those games will take 1.5-2.5 years to make from that point.

Good news - it's happening now. Expect some nice surprises at E3. Wii has a much shorter development cycle than HD systems, so Wii owners will get 1.5-3 AAA titles produced for every 1 HD AAA title. By the end of this generation this argument will be reversed. HD consoles owners will be wondering how to get more 3rd party support.

Otherwise - Nintendo could publish a lot more (2nd) 3rd party games to help things along. It's not like they are hurting for cash....