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Forums - Gaming - Silksong: a missed opportunity?

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RedKingXIII said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Reaper crest has delayed pogo animation, which means you can't spam it like you do with Hunter Crest. In fact even if I've found diagonal pogo to be much harder to master compared to HK pogo, it still better to plataform than Reaper's Crest (at least early game where most hazards, plataforms and sponges are designed with diagonal pogo in mind)

You need Wanderer Crest. This the one with true HK moveset. Best for exploration by far 

I found the Wanderer Crest at the end of act 2 so I barely used it :(

By then I already completed Mount Fay and Bilewater, so I didn't bother. In act 3 I only did 4 bosses and got the last needle upgrade because I was tired, like I said. And for that the Reaper Crest did the job just fine.

I love to use Reaper in bosses. Extra range is nice bosses in this games are either too fast or needs you to JUMP (God I HATE WITH ALL MY SOUL bosses you need jumping to do damage), so Reapers come in handy, specially with the extra Silk it produces 



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While I agree the scenario design is underwhelming (and underdesigned tbh), as I mentioned before, a lot of the recent complaints I read in this thread are really a matter of skill issue. And I hate bringing that up, because I hate that discourse in Fromsoft games, but dudes, you are complaining about things that are rather basic in games like these. Maybe stop trying to force the idea that its "objectively bad design" and try to realize its a "you" problem.



IcaroRibeiro said:
Machiavellian said:

When I see a lot of people play Silksong they barely use any of their silk skills or items and they slog through bosses and battle areas when you can pretty much own those

Impossible to use silk kit when you have mandatory use of full of your silk for healing, which is very much to use all the time with the 2 mask damage galore of this game 

I do not know what to tell you besides its a skill issue.  Once you get accustomed to how Silksong works, using your silk skills is a must, especially during battle areas as you can remove enemies quickly.  You really do need to pay attention to enemies patterns as that is part of the skill set you must develop.  Most battle areas can be cleared in under 10 secs.  The only big critical issues I say Silksong has is the run back.  I havr always dislike the mechanic and I dislike it in Silksong.  Playing Ninja Gaiden 4 pushes that home big time since you start right at the room or boss you died and can just jump into the action



Machiavellian said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Impossible to use silk kit when you have mandatory use of full of your silk for healing, which is very much to use all the time with the 2 mask damage galore of this game 

I do not know what to tell you besides its a skill issue.  Once you get accustomed to how Silksong works, using your silk skills is a must, especially during battle areas as you can remove enemies quickly.  You really do need to pay attention to enemies patterns as that is part of the skill set you must develop.  Most battle areas can be cleared in under 10 secs.  The only big critical issues I say Silksong has is the run back.  I havr always dislike the mechanic and I dislike it in Silksong.  Playing Ninja Gaiden 4 pushes that home big time since you start right at the room or boss you died and can just jump into the action

This is really a useless piece of advice. Silk is used for both healing and fighting, but healing uses all your silks instead of partial use of silk (compared to HK where you don't use all your soul to heal). So you either use silk to fight or to heal, you can't use both. At least not on bosses who 3-shot you

This could be mitigated for healing 1 mask a time, with only part of your silk. The healing in this game is a mechanic that is prized a lot, but I miss learning the bosses patterns to figure out their safe healing windows

SK seems to suffer from the same problem of Shadows of Erdtree. Boss fight don't last long enough to you memorize the pattern, and a single mistake like touching a boss can make you lose 4 masks and kill you. This also makes her first full mask to be kinda meh (she should have started with 6 masks and got a 7th after the 4 mask shards). If she wasn't so squishy, battles would last longer and enough to you to memorize bosses patterns

The new difference is Erdtree still open, so if a boss is fucking you, you can come back later with more upgrades stack. At least in act 1 this is not possible to do

As for runbacks, this is a criticism I don't actually agree. At least in act 1 all runbacks were fine, short even



Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Norion said:

Another is I don't get why a boss like Savage Beastfly has become hated since it was a piece of cake compared to Lace 2 and Karmelita.

That one is super easy. Because Savage Beastfly has RNG attached to it with its added mobs so you have to pray for luck lest you be put in a checkmate scenario because of the adds, which most definitely can happen. Lace 2 and Karmelita have nothing like that at all and it's all up to you as the player. Luck has no part of it.

Putting it simply, Lace 2 and Karmelita are difficult. Savage Beastfly is (potentially) unfair.  

I didn't have any issue with that cause I just used a tool to quickly take of the spawning flying enemies in its 2nd fight and the ones in the 1st fight were no problem. Bilewater on the other hand was a difficult area though so I can relate to the frustration about that somewhat.



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JimmyFantasy said:
Gprofessor said:

Secondly, a 10/10 is not a perfect game, because such a thing cannot ever exist. A 10/10, in my opinion, should be a game that revolutionizes a genre and offers an amazing experience all around. Something that I believe Silksong achieves, through its use of challenge, atmosphere, gameplay mechanics and Storytelling. 

Lastly, there are a lot of people, including myself, that can tell you that game has no serious design flaws, in fact I couldn't find minor ones, so the point that noone says otherwise doesn't stand. 

Can you name some of these design flaws? What in particular makes the game frustrating that shouldn't? Mind you, Silksong tries to make you feel uncomfortable because that is the feeling the designers were going for, so several of the design choices reflect that, but they are all deliberate and fine-tuned.

Well, then Silksong isn't (10/10) because it doesn't really revolutionize anything. It has exactly the same style, graphics, atmosphere, and much of the gameplay as its predecessor. It's just much less balanced, with less sophisticated level design. We're rewarding that.

Among what I consider flaws, and they're not all:
- excessive distances between benches and bosses (repetitiveness and gratuitous boredom)
- poor placement of benches in the levels (another excessive boredom, in the event of an accidental death)
- poorly designed world navigation system
- nonfunctional shard system, which makes weapons useful against a boss, for example, only when you already know you'll be able to defeat it; otherwise, you reset them in the previous run and essentially return to the boss even weaker than before (nonsensical!)
- basic enemies that are too aggressive, poorly positioned in certain spots, which are extremely boring to face after the 20th time, let alone the 150th, especially the flying ones (gratuitously tiring)
- fairly obvious user input reading by enemies, often hitting you not where you are but where you will be (especially evident for ranged attackers)
- the tool system offers various possibilities, but ultimately boils down to a few combinations of truly useful items (the compass is mandatory, right? Why should it take up a slot?)
- noticeable poor balancing in some gauntlets
- double jump achieved too late and poorly combined with gliding

These are some of the elements that don't make the game better, but only less enjoyable, annoying, and repetitive. They aren't thoughtful choices; it's simply the way it turned out, for better or worse. Otherwise, from now on, should we forgive every game that makes the experience frustrating?

The point that the game doesn't revolutionize anything is something I could get behind so I won't contest it. But the other points, I can't agree on

-distance between benches and boss: By making you play a part of the game again you get the chance to interact with its mechanics more and get better at them and more familiar. Also, it forces you to take a short break from the boss to clear your head and come at it at a fresh angle. They build character! None of the run backs are that long, in fact most of them are quite forgiving, I had no trouble running back at bosses and trying them again. 

-poor placement of benches: Don't know what you mean by that, I found most benches well thought at, not too isolated but not too convenient (the game wants you to feel unwanted in its world so designing for that is good design)

-poorly designed world navigation system: I actually found it to be excellent, lots of quick travel points but not too many, so you won't feel too comfortable. The different travel mechanics in the citadel serves narrative purposes, as well as making you not too reliant on your usual travel system

-Shard system: I was always full on shards, there are so many and so plentiful that my problem was always being at cap and never needing to hunt for more. I can give you a point here, as I found the sub weapons too powerful and too forgiving, I never used them because I found that they made the game too easy

-basic enemies too aggressive: That's a refreshing change from games making the enemies fodder. You actually have to account for them somewhat while traversing in Silksong. This is good design because you get to engage with them more. Also adds to the feeling of hostility and despair that the game goes for. I actually never found the basic enemies too aggressive, they were the perfect balance of stating their presence without being a nuisance.Their placement also is deliberate, they get in the way, but an experienced player can get around them easy. 

-Input reading: The only enemy that uses input reading to the point where you might call it a cheat is the super secret final boss. Every other enemy and boss telegraphs their attack and just tries to aim where you are at. I hate input reading, one of the flaws of elden Ring, but it doesn't exist in Silksong. The tracking ranged attacks just take into account your speed and trajectory, something the enemy can see, so of course they would aim for where you are heading. Easily reactable. 

- The tools: There are many, many uses to the tools, try experimenting. Almost everything can be useful, something not many games can say. I never used the compass, took up a slot and I can read a map without something telling me where I am. I actually enjoy the game more this way, more immersing.

-Some gauntlets were too easy, but take into account that when you find them matters. If you find an earlier challenge later in the game it might seem too easy, that's true. 

-I was so relieved there was no double jump until later in the game. It made the traversal that much more interesting. An early double jump would make you ignore lots of challenges. I don't see how it combines poorly with the glider.

As you can see I didn't find the game frustrating, I never had to look up anything, never lost my beads, and all while going in completely blind. I find it the perfect amount of challenging. Maybe it could be a little more challenging? I did have to impose some self made challenges, like not using the compass and sub weapons unless I really struggled. Will have to wait for the dlc. 



JimmyFantasy said:
mZuzek said:

This is ridiculous.

You're saying anyone who agrees with you is being "objective", and anyone who disagrees with you is being blinded by hype. And you're saying this is ruining the videogames industry? I would argue "AAAA" games launching at $80 filled with microtransactions and predatory practices, while also being full of bugs and clearly unfinished are doing a lot more harm to the industry than a little game developed by 4 people with a passion.

I'm not criticizing those who enjoyed the game, mind you. I was trying to raise an issue I think is important: that a game like Silksong can receive a 10/10 review so blindly, when in fact it has serious design issues that make the experience generally frustrating, sometimes at very high levels. And I haven't yet found anyone who says the game isn't.

And all this to say that when a title tends to be frustrating, it should be penalized, because this has always been a critical point, the antithesis of playability, since the dawn of the gaming medium. Otherwise, what's the point of criticism? A review should serve to reassure the consumer, guiding them towards a proper purchase. It should be done to protect the consumer, not the development team or the publisher.

A 10/10 game should basically be perfect in every way, which Silksong isn't, despite the beautiful and rich package they've put together.

A review isn't supposed to "protect the consumer", it's just the opinion of a guy who played it. Maybe the guy who played it enjoyed every single aspect of it and gave it a 10/10 because they thought it was an incredible experience. I personally thought it was a masterpiece and absolutely worth my time even if it was a little too frustrating here and there, mostly toward the first half of the game. I think the game's major "design issue" is how poorly communicated the path to Act 3 is.

What you fail to understand is: the things that stand out as obvious design issues to you may have not been issues to someone else. There is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to videogame opinions. It's all just opinions.

If you look at Opencritic, the game is recommended by 97% of critics. That means 97% of reviewers liked it, and 3% didn't. In other words, not everyone will like the game. No game is loved by everyone. In other words, no game is "perfect", thus by your logic, no game should ever get a 10/10. So basically, your logic sucks.



mZuzek said:
JimmyFantasy said:

I'm not criticizing those who enjoyed the game, mind you. I was trying to raise an issue I think is important: that a game like Silksong can receive a 10/10 review so blindly, when in fact it has serious design issues that make the experience generally frustrating, sometimes at very high levels. And I haven't yet found anyone who says the game isn't.

And all this to say that when a title tends to be frustrating, it should be penalized, because this has always been a critical point, the antithesis of playability, since the dawn of the gaming medium. Otherwise, what's the point of criticism? A review should serve to reassure the consumer, guiding them towards a proper purchase. It should be done to protect the consumer, not the development team or the publisher.

A 10/10 game should basically be perfect in every way, which Silksong isn't, despite the beautiful and rich package they've put together.

A review isn't supposed to "protect the consumer", it's just the opinion of a guy who played it. Maybe the guy who played it enjoyed every single aspect of it and gave it a 10/10 because they thought it was an incredible experience. I personally thought it was a masterpiece and absolutely worth my time even if it was a little too frustrating here and there, mostly toward the first half of the game. I think the game's major "design issue" is how poorly communicated the path to Act 3 is.

What you fail to understand is: the things that stand out as obvious design issues to you may have not been issues to someone else. There is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to videogame opinions. It's all just opinions.

If you look at Opencritic, the game is recommended by 97% of critics. That means 97% of reviewers liked it, and 3% didn't. In other words, not everyone will like the game. No game is loved by everyone. In other words, no game is "perfect", thus by your logic, no game should ever get a 10/10. So basically, your logic sucks.

I understand your point of view, but if criticism is pointless because it's just a matter of opinion, why bother writing a 'review'? Let's call them opinions from now on, not reviews. Let's objectively evaluate games only by frame rate, resolution, and maybe the occasional hiccup. Let's also throw in price and microtransactions, and nothing else.

To clarify the difference between a review and an opinion, I refer you to their definition (not written by me):

"A review is a more in-depth and reasoned evaluation of a product, service, or work, balancing subjective elements with a critical analysis aimed at informing the reader. An opinion, on the other hand, is a more concise, subjective, and often immediate judgment, expressing a personal belief without necessarily providing detailed explanations. Essentially, a review aims to guide the reader with a reasoned interpretation, while an opinion simply communicates an opinion."



mZuzek said:
 

A review isn't supposed to "protect the consumer", it's just the opinion of a guy who played it.

Yes, a review must inform the consumer critically and objectively; that would be its purpose.

When I said, in the opening post, not to trust reviews too much, it's because the system has changed compared to the past.

In the past, when print magazines were sold, we, the magazine buyers (you and I), were the ones paying; we were, in effect, the reviewers "real employers". If a reviewer gave you their opinion without critical analysis, and steered you toward a bad purchase, you wouldn't buy that magazine again and move on to something else. So there was an emphasis on criticism, as objective as possible.

Today, we, the consumers, are no longer the "employers" of online magazines, which are free; their employers, the ones who pay, are those who provide the advertising moneys and the review codes—namely, the developers and publishers themselves, who have an interest in promoting their product. In your opinion, can we still speak of objectivity in this context?

I generally appreciate reviews on VGChartz, like the one on Silksong, because they appear more genuine and objective than many other sites.

Sorry for the long rant, but this discussion is much broader and doesn't concern Silksong specifically, so I won't dwell on it.

Last edited by JimmyFantasy - on 31 October 2025

Gprofessor said:
JimmyFantasy said:

Well, then Silksong isn't (10/10) because it doesn't really revolutionize anything. It has exactly the same style, graphics, atmosphere, and much of the gameplay as its predecessor. It's just much less balanced, with less sophisticated level design. We're rewarding that.

Among what I consider flaws, and they're not all:
- excessive distances between benches and bosses (repetitiveness and gratuitous boredom)
- poor placement of benches in the levels (another excessive boredom, in the event of an accidental death)
- poorly designed world navigation system
- nonfunctional shard system, which makes weapons useful against a boss, for example, only when you already know you'll be able to defeat it; otherwise, you reset them in the previous run and essentially return to the boss even weaker than before (nonsensical!)
- basic enemies that are too aggressive, poorly positioned in certain spots, which are extremely boring to face after the 20th time, let alone the 150th, especially the flying ones (gratuitously tiring)
- fairly obvious user input reading by enemies, often hitting you not where you are but where you will be (especially evident for ranged attackers)
- the tool system offers various possibilities, but ultimately boils down to a few combinations of truly useful items (the compass is mandatory, right? Why should it take up a slot?)
- noticeable poor balancing in some gauntlets
- double jump achieved too late and poorly combined with gliding

These are some of the elements that don't make the game better, but only less enjoyable, annoying, and repetitive. They aren't thoughtful choices; it's simply the way it turned out, for better or worse. Otherwise, from now on, should we forgive every game that makes the experience frustrating?

The point that the game doesn't revolutionize anything is something I could get behind so I won't contest it. But the other points, I can't agree on

-distance between benches and boss: By making you play a part of the game again you get the chance to interact with its mechanics more and get better at them and more familiar. Also, it forces you to take a short break from the boss to clear your head and come at it at a fresh angle. They build character! None of the run backs are that long, in fact most of them are quite forgiving, I had no trouble running back at bosses and trying them again. 

-poor placement of benches: Don't know what you mean by that, I found most benches well thought at, not too isolated but not too convenient (the game wants you to feel unwanted in its world so designing for that is good design)

-poorly designed world navigation system: I actually found it to be excellent, lots of quick travel points but not too many, so you won't feel too comfortable. The different travel mechanics in the citadel serves narrative purposes, as well as making you not too reliant on your usual travel system

-Shard system: I was always full on shards, there are so many and so plentiful that my problem was always being at cap and never needing to hunt for more. I can give you a point here, as I found the sub weapons too powerful and too forgiving, I never used them because I found that they made the game too easy

-basic enemies too aggressive: That's a refreshing change from games making the enemies fodder. You actually have to account for them somewhat while traversing in Silksong. This is good design because you get to engage with them more. Also adds to the feeling of hostility and despair that the game goes for. I actually never found the basic enemies too aggressive, they were the perfect balance of stating their presence without being a nuisance.Their placement also is deliberate, they get in the way, but an experienced player can get around them easy. 

-Input reading: The only enemy that uses input reading to the point where you might call it a cheat is the super secret final boss. Every other enemy and boss telegraphs their attack and just tries to aim where you are at. I hate input reading, one of the flaws of elden Ring, but it doesn't exist in Silksong. The tracking ranged attacks just take into account your speed and trajectory, something the enemy can see, so of course they would aim for where you are heading. Easily reactable. 

- The tools: There are many, many uses to the tools, try experimenting. Almost everything can be useful, something not many games can say. I never used the compass, took up a slot and I can read a map without something telling me where I am. I actually enjoy the game more this way, more immersing.

-Some gauntlets were too easy, but take into account that when you find them matters. If you find an earlier challenge later in the game it might seem too easy, that's true. 

-I was so relieved there was no double jump until later in the game. It made the traversal that much more interesting. An early double jump would make you ignore lots of challenges. I don't see how it combines poorly with the glider.

As you can see I didn't find the game frustrating, I never had to look up anything, never lost my beads, and all while going in completely blind. I find it the perfect amount of challenging. Maybe it could be a little more challenging? I did have to impose some self made challenges, like not using the compass and sub weapons unless I really struggled. Will have to wait for the dlc. 

You've addressed the flaws I listed point by point, so those aspects aren't a source of frustration for you, or at least you're able to tolerate them well. There's nothing else to complain about here; I'm glad you were able to fully enjoy the game (even without using the compass :O), which unfortunately wasn't the case for me.

Last edited by JimmyFantasy - on 31 October 2025