Forget wars. These days, I feel like the console industry is already over, and I'm actively preparing to leave it. Every other day, I am seeing more and more studios using AI to make their games, and I feel like the writing is not just on the wall, it's tattooed to all our faces. Have we all realized it, yet? Clearly not. And some of us are going to be buck against the concept of gaming's demise so hard, that they're going to claim it's not that big a deal, that they will still love it, that everyone is just over-reacting. But the truth is, it is over. Done. Finished. This is the point in history where we're going to look back and realize that human art had been diagnosed with late-stage, terminal cancer; the beginning of the end.

So for me, I've decided to leave and spend my dollars building up and amassing a vast collection of retro consoles and games, things that I know were made by humans and that I will enjoy until the end of my days. Because they could release the second-coming, but if AI made it, I do not want it. You all can keep at it. I'm out.

1. You're literally lying now. YOU mentioned radeon and other components and I pointed out bringing these up is irrelevant when we're talking about consoles

2. When in doubt, just accuse everyone of not understanding your point and claim you won. Great strategy, good luck with it!

3. You definitely lost this point. Funny how software is where the money is(I'm glad you understand this after I told you that already) but Nintendo not only continues to make hardware but they are wildly successful at selling it, unlike the competition. Microsoft only had one successful hardware platform in the 360, they've failed every other time so they bailed on it to be videogame netflix. Nothing wrong with this strategy BTW, they just don't do hardware anymore.

4. No I'm not agreeing with you, but this is the strategy you now have to employ to save face.

There was no Reason for Sony and Microsoft to make handhelds when the home console market was still viable during the time of the DS. the shift from home console gaming to mobile gaming happened during the pandemic. Nintendo pushed through 2020 because they had a mobile device and a killer app in Animal Crossing New Horizons. the competition was behind the times and had no killer apps to compete with ACNH. Not only was no one buying the competition's hardware, but Nintendo was doing gangbusters with the Switch. So here comes the SteamDeck, the PS Portal, the new Xbox Handheld and all the other mini emulation machines. I'm not sure why you keep talking about the competition not making handhelds in reaction to the DS as I never made such a claim.

5. .......And what do you plan on doing little buddy??

PC isn't a console, so it cannot win the console wars. 

"Most games" Irrelevant. 1,000 slop games cannot compare to one well made game. Trying to count everything on PC from 1985 to 2025 and then claim that a console with an 8 year lifespan can't compete is shortsighted. It's comparing apples and oranges. 

"Best Graphics." That's entirely user-dependent. You can also have the worst graphics, if said user decides to never upgrade. But for some reason only the expensive and updated rigs count, right? 

"Framerates." Many people flat out do not care about that.

"All the console games." Do you mean via software-emulation? That is one of the biggest threats to game preservation, because many software based emulators like Dolphin still have bugs even after decades. Do not even get me started on that topic. If you aren't playing on original hardware or FPGA you aren't playing at 100% accuracy. Even a Tink 4K can't yet match a high-end PVM or BVM for accurate scanlines. 

"We have the most gamers." Stop counting Grandma playing solitare and my old roommate rocking a 10 year old GPU that's barely faster than a PS4. 

"We have all the form factors." ??? Yeah yeah, and donuts have the most holes, therefore they are the best. Elephants have the longest noses so they are the best animal evar!!!! See? Anybody can do this!

"Userbase growth". Sony and Nintendo are also seeing userbase growth. Consoles as a whole may be slipping but that's largely due to Xbox poisoning the pot.  

You said Sony was bigger than Nintendo in "total software". Now you've changed it to "total software sales". According to you, Nintendo has more software than Sony and Nintendo is definitely bigger in software sales. not sure what you're trying to go on here. Nintendo can continue with series like Xenoblade, Pikmin, and metroid because of how well Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon do. Sony does the same thing with killer apps like TLOU, God of War, Grand Turismo, Horizon, etc. their tent pole games just aren't remotely as successful as Nintendo's. If you're not making money you can't experiment on games that aren't going to sell.

I'm not here to argue against your personal tastes. Play what you love, love what you play. I'm arguing Nintendo doesn't need all these other avenues of revenue to run a successful gaming business. The competition does. Nintendo doesn't have a problem selling their software or their hardware.

The PS5s best selling game is Spiderman 2 at around 14 million. That's the only PS5 game to crack 10 million while the Switch has 21 games that hit 10 million. Animal Crossing New Horizons sold 30 million 5 years ago and is now closing in on 49 million. All 21 of those 10 million selling games for Switch are in house Nintendo titles. Nothing new here as Nintendo's own games always carried their systems. Even the NES with all it's memorable 3rd party releases like Castlevania, Contra, Ninja Gaiden, Megaman, etc didn't sell anywhere near as much as Mario, Zelda, duck hunt and the like.  

Strengths and weaknesses....Like EA used to say "it's in the game". Software sells hardware, not the other way around. Nintendo does do their share of MTX and subscriptions. They have NSO which is a repository of their retro library and they have a handful of mobile games. You will never see games like PokemonZA, Age of Imprisonment, Mario Kart World, Donkey Kong Bonanaza on anything but a Switch, but they do have games for the mobile MTX game market. 

Things other than Nintendo obviously exist bud, they're just not competing with Nintendo.

PC = Personal Computer.

All consoles are PC's.

Not irrelevant. PC gets all new Playstation/Xbox releases.

You don't need an overtly powerful PC to run games with better graphics than a console.
People forget that consoles are old, even budget PC's can beat them handily.

I never said you did. Just pointed out that many people you are counting as PC gamers have a woefully outdated rig even by console standards. 

It's literally the biggest selling point for the Playstation 5/Xbox Series X.

No, the biggest selling point is having a device that just plugs and plays. If the biggest selling point of a console was higher framerates then we would see extremely fast early adoption, with the majority of console owners having bought their console within the first year of launch.  

Microsoft releases everything on PC.

Sony releases everything on PC.

PC gets all the 3rd party support today.

And yes... You even have emulation.

Microsoft is dead outside of Forza and Flight Sim. Games like Doom and Obsidian titles have gotten console releases for a decade now. 

Where's Astrobot and Ghost of Yotei? 

PC also gets digital-only versions of all games, including 3rd party games that are infested with Denuvo. A.K.A. unbuyable versions. If PC actually allowed me to own something, I would agree with you. But it is the most anti-consumer platform of them all. 

Going by Steam statistics, PC has the most gamers.

The age or competency of the hardware is irrelevant... There is probably still 100~ million gamers running the Switch, Xbox One and/or Playstation 4, but they are still countered as console gamers.

Evidence you don't have a logical rebuttal, thanks for the free entertainment.

No they aren't.

Whatever growth they are seeing has come at the expense of Microsoft.

The console market, whilst seeing higher profits per-user on their platform due to services and microtransactions and higher prices, has essentially remained static.
Remember the Switch at 150~ million, Xbox One at 50 million, Playstation 4 at 115 million is unlikely to be beaten this generation... Heck the Playstation 5 is trailing the Playstation 4, albeit only just.

https://www.vgchartz.com/article/465289/ps5-vs-ps4-sales-comparison-june-2025/

Glad we agree that MS is fueling the growth of PS and Nintendo. Let's wait until the current gen is over before declaring that PS5 won't beat PS4. 

I obviously was talking about sales, because sales is the entire context lol, it's crazy to assume anything else. Playstation dominates the Switch in total software sales (mtx/subs included).They're not close even without COD (which you foolishly tried to say it's the only PS game that mattered). Nintendo dominates in merchandise and 1st party software.

Every brand is doing their own thing but Switch, Steam, and PS do indirectly compete. Playstation somehow remains super strong despite the lack of true exclusives (its more compelling software will be divided across multiple platforms, limiting the hardware/plarform sales potential). Nintendo is super strong due to PC/console handheld monopoly and an unrivalled 1st party software that you cannot play anywhere else.

PS isn't required to match Nintendo's 1st party output or sales. Sony has a much stronger software competition within Playstation, and they don't care because it nets them a lot of money and ultimately makes PS the most consistent home console in history. Nintendo and Sony can both take routes that the other can't or won't dare.

Thanks for mentioning mobile phones. Nintendo takes mobile gaming and non-gaming sectors into account in their profitability reports, whereas Sony's major mobile games count under Aniplex/SonyMusic. So they are different down to how they do the counting. Fate Grand Order made over 8 billion, and not a dollar of it goes under SonyGaming.

False. Not lying. Merely pointing out the hypocrisy as you tried to twist my comments.
I mentioned consoles adopting PC technology, you carried that argument by mentioning Radeon, your are complicit in the details. 

Thus if it's such an irrelevant point, then why mention Radeon? Why can't you answer this simple question?

If you are not willing to engage in constructive discussion, then it may be time for you to exit this thread, considering you are being abrasive towards each and every single individual.

Not true. 
You already replied without understanding my statements and haven't provided a coherent rebuttal since to it, so obviously the logic dictates that you lack understanding of what was state.

I am more than happy to assist and clarify any sticking points that you may be struggling with... If you actually formulated a proper and coherent reply to the points presented to start with.

How can I lose a point that I pushed?

Money is in the software, it's ecosystems that push more software, ecosystems is how you grow your userbase in a static hardware environment.

Whether a console fails/succeeds is actually based on profitability from software sales, not the number of hardware sales.

Thus the Original Xbox was a colossal failure... Xbox 360 was a massive success, Xbox One was a success... And from what I can tell, the Xbox Series consoles are also profitable, so they would also be a success.

You don't need the best selling hardware on the market to be a success.

False.

But you argument was...
1) Switch successful.
2) Everyone else copy Switch.

But then somehow warp it to exclude the DS which was just as successful as the Switch?

I am still trying to wrap my head around how you are trying to justify this warped reasoning.

It's a formal warning. 

PC = Personal Computer.

All consoles are PC's.

Not irrelevant. PC gets all new Playstation/Xbox releases.

You don't need an overtly powerful PC to run games with better graphics than a console.
People forget that consoles are old, even budget PC's can beat them handily.

It's literally the biggest selling point for the Playstation 5/Xbox Series X.

Microsoft releases everything on PC.

Sony releases everything on PC.

PC gets all the 3rd party support today.

And yes... You even have emulation.

Going by Steam statistics, PC has the most gamers.

The age or competency of the hardware is irrelevant... There is probably still 100~ million gamers running the Switch, Xbox One and/or Playstation 4, but they are still countered as console gamers.

Evidence you don't have a logical rebuttal, thanks for the free entertainment.

No they aren't.

Whatever growth they are seeing has come at the expense of Microsoft.

The console market, whilst seeing higher profits per-user on their platform due to services and microtransactions and higher prices, has essentially remained static.
Remember the Switch at 150~ million, Xbox One at 50 million, Playstation 4 at 115 million is unlikely to be beaten this generation... Heck the Playstation 5 is trailing the Playstation 4, albeit only just.

https://www.vgchartz.com/article/465289/ps5-vs-ps4-sales-comparison-june-2025/

.....So you're just going to lie and make stuff up now?

here's your quote you weirdo:

=================

Just because you think it is "dumb" doesn't make it so.
Just because you think others "deal in delusions" doesn't make it so.
That is delusional circular thinking to reinforce your own false dichotomy.