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Forums - Microsoft - Who did more damage to Xbox's console business: Don Mattrick or Phil Spencer?

 

Who was worse?

Don Mattrick 27 51.92%
 
Phil Spencer 25 48.08%
 
Total:52
xboxgreen said:
curl-6 said:

I mean the vocal component of a fanbase that complains about things online is a tiny share of the overall audience; Halo 4 was the third highest selling retail video game of 2012. And a number of the listed games came after 2010.

xboxgreen said:

Crackdown 3 sucks and fable 3 was a disappointment. Metro 2033 was hardly a green game on metacritic during the 7th generation when journalists were more forgiving. Alan awake was a boring game.

Only good games you listed was splinter cell conviction and Witcher 2. Still pales in comparison to what PS3 offered and proving my point 360 second half was disappointing.

Also, I have to wait four years for Microsoft to fix their console and to buy it again? What a joke.

Taste is subjective; many people liked games like Alan Wake, Fable 3, and Metro. It's just not accurate to say there was nothing outside of Halo/Gears/Forza.

RROD was a misstep, but for most of the 360's life it was solved.

Those were the main AAA games from Microsoft.360 back half sucked full of disappointment and shovelware.

I mean if it wasn't to your taste that's fine; I had a fabulous time as a 360 owner from 2010 onwards, there was tons of great games to play.



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curl-6 said:
xboxgreen said:

Those were the main AAA games from Microsoft.360 back half sucked full of disappointment and shovelware.

I mean if it wasn't to your taste that's fine; I had a fabulous time as a 360 owner from 2010 onwards, there was tons of great games to play.

More power to you, but that is what started the Xbox One down fall. MS should've been acquiring more studios during that time. 



xboxgreen said:
curl-6 said:

I mean if it wasn't to your taste that's fine; I had a fabulous time as a 360 owner from 2010 onwards, there was tons of great games to play.

More power to you, but that is what started the Xbox One down fall. MS should've been acquiring more studios during that time. 

They've acquired half the industry at this point but that doesn't seem to have helped; the problem is that MS doesn't seem very good at managing the studios they acquire. You can't just buy your way into a great first party position, you need to be able to properly nurture the studios you own.



Two things can be true: the second half of 360's life was mostly filled with disappointment and shovelware for the majority of longtime Xbox owners; it also didn't have that much affect on the Xbox brand since they were in a dominant position for that generation.

But of couse in true Xbox fashion, they pissed away something should've been simple and easy through their obssession with proprietery software, hardware gimmicks and forcibly tying people to their online services at all times . And because of all those unnecessary and unwanted 'features' (boy, why does this sound familiar?), it also made the base system significantly weaker than it's obvious counterpart.

Yet even with all that self-sabotage, the Xbox One was still selling very well for a while based on the brand credibility they built with the 360. The problem they ran into eventually is the same problem they have now-- there were no games that made you feel you need an Xbox just to play them.

That fatal flaw has never been fixed under Phil's regin. The only difference is he made a lot of grand overtures about how he planned to fix it and give people what they want. But he's failed repeatedly and lied repeatedly. In my book that makes him far more damaging to the brand, which has ultimately lead to it's slow death.



From a sales perspective, Kinnect gave a massive boost to Xbox 360, Kinnect was a major reason why Wii sales fell off a cliff after a few years.



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curl-6 said:
Trentonater said:

that is the problem, the second half of the 360 was when microsoft got the reputation for only churning out samey gear halo and forza games with nothing else to offer. gear of war judgement, and halo 4? these weren't even well-recieved games by the fanbases... much less than mentioning the reception fable III and crackdown 2 got. and after 2010 especially they just had nothing to offer. Don was a death nell for xbox first party output and his decision included shutting down ensemble studios when they had never released an unsuccessful game.

I mean the vocal component of a fanbase that complains about things online is a tiny share of the overall audience; Halo 4 was the third highest selling retail video game of 2012. And a number of the listed games came after 2010.

xboxgreen said:

Crackdown 3 sucks and fable 3 was a disappointment. Metro 2033 was hardly a green game on metacritic during the 7th generation when journalists were more forgiving. Alan awake was a boring game.

Only good games you listed was splinter cell conviction and Witcher 2. Still pales in comparison to what PS3 offered and proving my point 360 second half was disappointing.

Also, I have to wait four years for Microsoft to fix their console and to buy it again? What a joke.

Taste is subjective; many people liked games like Alan Wake, Fable 3, and Metro. It's just not accurate to say there was nothing outside of Halo/Gears/Forza.

RROD was a misstep, but for most of the 360's life it was solved.

Reputation and confidence were shattered all 360's life though. RROD then E74, waiting for repairs leaving the door open to play on another console and get hooked on that... Get a repaired console back that failed again within a few months. My 3rd 360 might still work, haven't dared to touch it since finishing TWD in 2013...

That loss of confidence combined with a back half that mostly focused on shovel ware and Kinect made ps3 the better console for 'full time' gaming.

And the difference between free and paid online sealed the deal. When I switched to ps3 as my main console after the 2nd 360 failure I also cancelled XBox Live. Then having to sign back up / pay again for online kept me playing 3rd party games on ps3. Which mostly sealed my choice between Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo. I played GT5 a lot online, could have been Forza 3, but I skipped that to wait for GT5 since online was behind a paywall. And my first 360 RROD was while playing Forza 2 after all :/

RROD / E74 uncertainty, paid online, lackluster back half line-up, DVD not containing the full game, focus on Kinect. While Sony turned their disastrous start around with great games people wanted, MS did the opposite and ran out of steam / lost focus chasing Wii's blue ocean with Kinect shovel ware. It made for some hilarious E3 content though.



That while Sony was announcing Uncharted 2 and God of War 3, and Nintendo SMBW and SMG 2.


Just blaming the downfall of XBox on the XBox One reveal is not fully correct imo. 360 was already eroding XBox at the end of its lifespan. The Kinect fad was a huge disruption for a temporary boost that ultimately led nowhere. (35 million Kinect sold in the end until 2017) Even if XBox One didn't have a bungled start, it would have still suffered a setback like WiiU after Wii. That blue ocean did not stick around, or rather stuck with Wii / 360 Kinect to bring out on family occasions instead of buying into a new generation. 



SvennoJ said:
curl-6 said:

I mean the vocal component of a fanbase that complains about things online is a tiny share of the overall audience; Halo 4 was the third highest selling retail video game of 2012. And a number of the listed games came after 2010.

xboxgreen said:

Crackdown 3 sucks and fable 3 was a disappointment. Metro 2033 was hardly a green game on metacritic during the 7th generation when journalists were more forgiving. Alan awake was a boring game.

Only good games you listed was splinter cell conviction and Witcher 2. Still pales in comparison to what PS3 offered and proving my point 360 second half was disappointing.

Also, I have to wait four years for Microsoft to fix their console and to buy it again? What a joke.

Taste is subjective; many people liked games like Alan Wake, Fable 3, and Metro. It's just not accurate to say there was nothing outside of Halo/Gears/Forza.

RROD was a misstep, but for most of the 360's life it was solved.

RROD / E74 uncertainty, paid online, lackluster back half line-up, DVD not containing the full game, focus on Kinect. While Sony turned their disastrous start around with great games people wanted, MS did the opposite and ran out of steam / lost focus chasing Wii's blue ocean with Kinect shovel ware. It made for some hilarious E3 content though.



Sephiran said:

From a sales perspective, Kinnect gave a massive boost to Xbox 360, Kinnect was a major reason why Wii sales fell off a cliff after a few years.

Was it really? Kinect came out end 2010, Wii peaked the year before and was already on its downward curve.





Kinect did not boost software revenue, It looks more like the rise of Mobile gaming started taking the blue ocean.



Kinect came out at the perfect time when Wii waggle was starting to wear thin. But ultimately mobile gaming is where the blue ocean ended up. Angry Birds already sold 12 million copies before Kinect launched. Pokemon Go in 2016 reached 232 million active players and went on to 500 million downloads.

I don't dispute Kinect took some of Wii's blue ocean, Wii went from 101 million to 13.6 million WiiU sales, and gave 360 a late gen boost. But it was only a temporary boost of a crowd that wasn't interested in a new console just 2-3 years later and instead went seems to have gone with mobile gaming.

Kinect 2 was a total waste. 



SvennoJ said:
Sephiran said:

From a sales perspective, Kinnect gave a massive boost to Xbox 360, Kinnect was a major reason why Wii sales fell off a cliff after a few years.

Was it really? Kinect came out end 2010, Wii peaked the year before and was already on its downward curve.





Kinect did not boost software revenue, It looks more like the rise of Mobile gaming started taking the blue ocean.



Kinect came out at the perfect time when Wii waggle was starting to wear thin. But ultimately mobile gaming is where the blue ocean ended up. Angry Birds already sold 12 million copies before Kinect launched. Pokemon Go in 2016 reached 232 million active players and went on to 500 million downloads.

I don't dispute Kinect took some of Wii's blue ocean, Wii went from 101 million to 13.6 million WiiU sales, and gave 360 a late gen boost. But it was only a temporary boost of a crowd that wasn't interested in a new console just 2-3 years later and instead went seems to have gone with mobile gaming.

Kinect 2 was a total waste. 

Great post. Kinect did eat some of Wii's share, namely in NA. But the Wii was pretty much going to decline greatly no matter what given Nintendo's decisions. From 2011 onward, Wii had few Nintendo or third-party new releases that really appealed to casuals, intermediates, or core gamers alike. Switch has avoided this problem with flying colors. 

Kinect bit Microsoft in the butt so much. It helped 360, but was a massive flaw with Xbox One. Namely when it was going to be forced on the customer, and it was still forced in the package at first, adding about $100 to the cost.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 122 million (was 105 million, then 115 million) Xbox Series X/S: 38 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million. then 48 million. then 40 million)

Switch 2: 120 million (was 116 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

Sephiran said:

From a sales perspective, Kinnect gave a massive boost to Xbox 360, Kinnect was a major reason why Wii sales fell off a cliff after a few years.

Nah that was the iPhone. The audience mostly migrated to Smartphones. 



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!