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Runa216 said:
JRPGfan said:

You wouldn't listen to a explanation anyways.
You would twist words... give your own explanations for what your assumptions of people are (like in your post above).
Label people, with names instead.

This thread has been about, not just the "what is woke", but also people saying why they don't want it in games.

Your response has been to write posts like you just did, all thread long.
And apparently, you didn't take away anything anyone said (because their views don't matter to you).
This is just a thread for you to berate others.

Fact of the matter is, most of the world isn't as progressive as you are.

"If forced inclusion and woke themes are ruining the medium...then it WILL correct itself in time. If people genuinely do stop buying games that have progressive themes, the money hungry corporations will ABSOLUTELY stop making them,.."

This is the hope, of the anti-woke side.
If enough games that are super woke, and or play bad (because of it), they at least get punished for making a bad game.

Runa216 said:

at this point I just sort of hope the whole world burns if those are the values you and so many others like to valorize.

Your take on this subject is really extreme.
You get that right?

The hypocritical projection here genuinely makes it hard to even consider responding. I don't even know what to say when your strongest 'argument' is "All those things you called me out for...you do, actually!" It's the modern equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?"

I have read plenty of arguments, debates, points, and opinions and as a person who actually cares about people who don't look, feel, or act like me and can empathize with people who don't live my experience (I'm a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white male that passes for cis and hetero), I've found almost none of them to have any merit. As A result I find it hard to argue most points because they're so far removed from reality or so AGGRESSIVELY ignorant of the facts and context. Most of the points, not just here but all over the internet, are so astoundingly foolish and devoid of any logic or backing that there's no room to reach some sort of common ground. 

For example, did you know some people are STILL Saying Imane Khalief (I don't know if that's how you spell her name) is actually a man? Even though she was born with a vagina and is by all means a woman who just has some elevated testosterone? Yeah, there's no argument there, these people are just flat out wrong. "You're factually wrong" isn't enough to convince anyone because they're so ingrained with what they WANT to believe (Again, the simple, wrong answer) that facts elude them. 

And you are no better. You keep saying shit and most of it is so foolish I don't bother directly addressing it. From what I Can tell you are one of those 'if it doesn't appeal to me PERSONALLY then it has no right to be part of the medium' types. You encapsulate everything I've been ranting about, even if not a 1:1 example. 

So I don't even begin to know how to argue with you. You don't like a thing. Good for you. Would you like a cookie or something? You don't want to see unattractive women and appear to feel that this is an affront to you personally and the medium as a whole. What do I even say to that? "Okay, then don't play it and go fap to some gacha waifu game"? I mean, that's the answer, but instead of simply saying 'this isn't for me' and moving on, you seem to think it's ruining the medium. I genuinely don't know how to teach you that you are not the only person who's tastes matter. 

I don't like Phoenix wright, I personally think everything about those games is dumb as hell. I hate the writing, I hate the style, I hate the Saturday morning cartoon version of how legal proceedings work. I hate it so much...but I don't bitch about it because I see others like it. My roommates love it. And I'm glad it exists because it means that the medium is healthy. IT's not for me but it has an audience. 

Same with Monster Hunter. Those games are monstrously popular and I do not understand why. I hate the controls, I hate the gameplay loop, I hate the animations and on a personal level I hate hunting (I even feel bad about it in games like Red Dead), but I don't think those games shouldn't exist. I don't see the appeal but they make a lot of people happy so I am glad that they exist. 

I don't tend to like a lot of indie games that are poignant and deep and meaningful unless they also have really fun gameplay like Celeste. But again, I'm incredibly glad they exist because Video Games are an art form and that means EVERYONE gets to express themselves and feel represented. That means everyone deserves to feel like they matter or that the world is listening.

Sometimes that means bald women. Sometimes that means various ethnicities that aren't what you're used to. Sometimes that means people who aren't straight, don't identify with the sex they were born with, or don't engage in traditional paradigms. That is what 'woke' is, the idea that change needs to happen to make the world a better place for everyone. It's not everyone else's fault that the people this medium primarily catered to for decades are insecure, selfish, entitled brats. It's not a gay black trans woman's fault that a straight white male doesn't want anyone else to sit at the same table as him. THAT is why being 'woke' is a good thing, because we want the table to offer a seat to anyone and everyone who wants a meal, not just the fuckers who are already fat off gorging for the last 30 years. 

THAT is why I'm always so fucking angry about all this. I'm so sick of hearing entitled brats complaining that others get to feel like they matter so they frame it as oppression on their part so they can feel justified in making a hostile environment for anyone who dares approach. 

All that would be okay... if games didn't cost a fortune to make, and if they don't sell well, the company that made them, risk closure.

So yes, its great there are games that appeal to say "gay black trans women" (the example you used).
However, if the bigger part of the public, don't want a game, that appeals to "gay black trans women" (as they aren't that, and cant identify with it), that is a issue.

Because
1) people are not getting what they want (and the consumer, is always right.... ei. things won't sell well otherwise). Which sucks for the majority.
Great for that 1 gay black trans guy, that loves the game though (as you point out) (but how many of them are buying games?).

2) AAA games, cannot take, appealing to a minority, if it kills sales.
Look at something like Concord/suicide squad kill the justice league..., next to Marvel Rivals. This woke stuff, doesn't appeal to enough people.

Some "old greats" studios like Bioware, is now at risk of closing down.
Ubisoft, could also fall apart....  and they both bet everything on going super woke, with their upcoming games.
What happends if Mass effect and the new Assasins Creeds, sales are bad? Bioware cannot take another Dragon Age Veilguard with sales (people are saying).
Ubisoft apparently bleed like 1.5bn in 2024, or something crazy like that.
They dropped like 85%+ of the shares value as a company.   Assasin Creeds Shadows flops... and its over potentially for them.

So while the anti-woke might want to see what they deem too woke, doing poorly  (if you don't like something, why support it?).
I think most overall want the best for companies. They want them to make great games, that appeal to the masses, and sell well.

Meanwhile the woke side, is cheering on all this stuff, that appeals to a tiny minority of people, even if its potentially hurting sales.
Its going to lead to companies closing down.  Ei. the market will contract/shrink = less games for everyone.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 30 December 2024

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Like would you label her (Laura Fryer) as a grifter ?

Both of these should be watched, by everyone in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHwCypPq1iM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBDf9WtzgBE

Watch this and tell me she doesn't make good points.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 30 December 2024

JRPGfan said:
Runa216 said:

-Snip-

However, if the bigger part of the public, don't want a game, that appeals to "gay black trans women" (as they aren't that, and cant identify with it), that is a issue.

2) AAA games, cannot take, appealing to a minority, if it kills sales.
Look at something like Concord/suicide squad kill the justice league..., next to Marvel Rivals. This woke stuff, doesn't appeal to enough people.

Some "old greats" studios like Bioware, is now at risk of closing down.
Ubisoft, could also fall apart....  and they both bet everything on going super woke, with their upcoming games.
What happends if Mass effect and the new Assasins Creeds, sales are bad? Bioware cannot take another Dragon Age Veilguard with sales (people are saying).
Ubisoft apparently bleed like 1.5bn in 2024, or something crazy like that.
They dropped like 85%+ of the shares value as a company.   Assasin Creeds Shadows flops... and its over potentially for them.

I can't say that a single game I've played this year has a character than I can identify with.

Games have to be good first and foremost, Concord was not good, Suicide Squad's biggest issue was the GaaS aspect. Even the so called "Mainstream Media" which these grifters you keep posting believe are in a big conspiracy to promote DEI and whatnot, agree that these games suck, Concord has a 64 on OpenCritic and Suicide Squad has a 59 on OpenCritic, ironically has a higher average on Steam.

Marvel Rivals is also like, based on one of the biggest IPs on the planet, Lol. Seems good with an 80% on Steam but lets wait and see how it holds up in half a year from now or so, I'm not saying it's going to die or going to explode even more, I don't know but these games live or die on their post-launch support so lets wait and see if it maintains this enthusiasm or everyone just goes back to the other games, Lol.

There's nothing "super woke" about Ubisoft's recent or upcoming titles, I already had to correct you once that Yasuke isn't gay and it's player choice, like the past two Assassin Creeds which have been very successful, Yasuke is also a real life person so I guess it's woke to use real black people now too? Ignoring the multiple Japanese adaptations of Yasuke as well which have him as a samurai, in the series of Assassin's Creed, which regularly makes alterations to history, both changing historical figures lives or adding in completely made up ones, like every single AC protagonist before.

Here are Ubisoft's financials.

In the financial year 2023-24, which ended in March 2024, French video game producer Ubisoft reported a net income of 157.9 million euros ($164m), up from a net loss of close to 495 million euros ($514m) in the previous year.

Ubisoft Net Income 2024 | Statista

Not a great loss, Lol. But nowhere near $1.5bn. I'm not sure where to find the net income for the past two quarters and they have two more to go, may be that they only report net income in the yearly report. In addition, Ubisoft has $1bn cash as of July 2024. Big issue for Ubisoft is it's expensive to manage nearly 20,000 employees and build everything in-house, including multiple engines. While other major publishers lay off thousands and instead choose to use cheaper outsourcing, Ubisoft has mostly avoided that up until now, but they've never really had what I would call big profit margins, in part due to their massive size.



JRPGfan said:

All that would be okay... if games didn't cost a fortune to make, and if they don't sell well, the company that made them, risk closure.

So yes, its great there are games that appeal to say "gay black trans women" (the example you used).
However, if the bigger part of the public, don't want a game, that appeals to "gay black trans women" (as they aren't that, and cant identify with it), that is a issue.

Because
1) people are not getting what they want (and the consumer, is always right.... ei. things won't sell well otherwise). Which sucks for the majority.
Great for that 1 gay black trans guy, that loves the game though (as you point out) (but how many of them are buying games?).

2) AAA games, cannot take, appealing to a minority, if it kills sales.
Look at something like Concord/suicide squad kill the justice league..., next to Marvel Rivals. This woke stuff, doesn't appeal to enough people

Some "old greats" studios like Bioware, is now at risk of closing down.
Ubisoft, could also fall apart....  and they both bet everything on going super woke, with their upcoming games.
What happends if Mass effect and the new Assasins Creeds, sales are bad? Bioware cannot take another Dragon Age Veilguard with sales (people are saying).
Ubisoft apparently bleed like 1.5bn in 2024, or something crazy like that.
They dropped like 85%+ of the shares value as a company.   Assasin Creeds Shadows flops... and its over potentially for them.

So while the anti-woke might want to see what they deem too woke, doing poorly  (if you don't like something, why support it?).
I think most overall want the best for companies. They want them to make great games, that appeal to the masses, and sell well.

Meanwhile the woke side, is cheering on all this stuff, that appeals to a tiny minority of people, even if its potentially hurting sales.
Its going to lead to companies closing down.  Ei. the market will contract/shrink = less games for everyone.

what are you talking about? None of this post is rooted in reality. I genuinely don't even know what to argue against because it genuinely feels like you do not live in the same objective reality as I do and you're working backwards to construct a fantasy that justifies your conclusion. 

Straw Man.

I was legitimately going to go down every paragraph you wrote and ask why you felt that way or why you felt it mattered (like seriously who cares what the game's budget is? Focus testing groups ruined the PS3 era and...exactly, just trying to contest this one point has me trying to do a deep-dive on why it doesn't matter and ain't nobody got time for that), but my eyes glazed over when I Realized exactly what I Was worried about in a previous post. One small foolish statement needs like five paragraphs explaining why it's five steps removed from reality. 

You're sincerely just making things up and presenting your fantasy version of reality to justify your stance. I cannot correct that. The statements you're making just don't fit with reality. The claims your making are not based on facts. nobody can argue with that. 

IF you don't want to see diversity in representation, then fine. Play Baldur's Gate as a straight white human. You're allowed to do that. Buy Call of Duty. You're allowed to do that. you don't have to chose trans pronouns or engage with queer relationships in games, and even if a game is explicitly queer, you're free to just not buy it. You're free to only buy games that match your very narrow view of what is acceptable. There are always going to be dozens of traditional games. 

And I repeat from earlier (maybe not in response to you in particular), if you actually cared about shifting trends and actually cared about the direction of the medium you would just be voting with your wallet, not ranting about it online. Voting with your wallet gives the message 'this is what I Want, and this is what I will support' while ranting about it and aggressively screaming about wokeness sends a message of 'not only do I not want this but this shouldn't be allowed'.

Which is the difference. You rant because you want to send a message and because you want to silence voices of those who don't cater to you. Instead of...you know, letting the rest of us who DO want that sort of thing to be able to support it. I DO want queer representation. I DO want nonbinary terms and weird niche shit in games even if it's not for me. How dare you act like I'm wrong for that or the developers are wrong for accepting that I and others like me want those games. 

Seriously, you should be ashamed of yourself.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Runa216 said:
JRPGfan said:

-Snip-

IF you don't want to see diversity in representation, then fine. Play Baldur's Gate as a straight white human. You're allowed to do that. Buy Call of Duty. You're allowed to do that. you don't have to chose trans pronouns or engage with queer relationships in games, and even if a game is explicitly queer, you're free to just not buy it. You're free to only buy games that match your very narrow view of what is acceptable. There are always going to be dozens of traditional games.

Yuuup.

Though Call of Duty recently caught some criticism for a non-binary operator but such weak grifters can't penetrate one of the biggest selling titles in the world, Cold War also had a non-binary option that I'm just learning today, Lol. Guess I missed that bit of rage, really feels like things escalated since Grummz entered the scene because the dude ain't got anything better to do and latched onto the classic "Blizzard Bad" which made him an idol, then there's a bunch of YouTubers realising that hate sells better than positivity so they're constantly looking for things to fucking whine about.



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Ryuu96 said:
Runa216 said:

IF you don't want to see diversity in representation, then fine. Play Baldur's Gate as a straight white human. You're allowed to do that. Buy Call of Duty. You're allowed to do that. you don't have to chose trans pronouns or engage with queer relationships in games, and even if a game is explicitly queer, you're free to just not buy it. You're free to only buy games that match your very narrow view of what is acceptable. There are always going to be dozens of traditional games.

Yuuup.

Though Call of Duty recently caught some criticism for a non-binary operator but such weak grifters can't penetrate one of the biggest selling titles in the world, Cold War also had a non-binary option that I'm just learning today, Lol. Guess I missed that bit of rage, really feels like things escalated since Grummz entered the scene because the dude ain't got anything better to do and latched onto the classic "Blizzard Bad" which made him an idol, then there's a bunch of YouTubers realising that hate sells better than positivity so they're constantly looking for things to fucking whine about.

Of course it did...and yet the world continues to rotate. 

These people really do need to learn that more people being represented doesn't mean they will no longer be represented. 

"To those in power, equality feels like oppression."

"There's nothing in this world more dangerous than those with power convinced they have none"



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Runa216 said:
Ryuu96 said:

Yuuup.

Though Call of Duty recently caught some criticism for a non-binary operator but such weak grifters can't penetrate one of the biggest selling titles in the world, Cold War also had a non-binary option that I'm just learning today, Lol. Guess I missed that bit of rage, really feels like things escalated since Grummz entered the scene because the dude ain't got anything better to do and latched onto the classic "Blizzard Bad" which made him an idol, then there's a bunch of YouTubers realising that hate sells better than positivity so they're constantly looking for things to fucking whine about.

Of course it did...and yet the world continues to rotate. 

These people really do need to learn that more people being represented doesn't mean they will no longer be represented. 

"To those in power, equality feels like oppression."

"There's nothing in this world more dangerous than those with power convinced they have none"

There's people that want to keep things they way they were in the past.  And then there are people such as yourself that want to include others.  Finally, you have people like me that enjoy making jokes about being gay to such a degree that people wonder if i'm projecting, when in reality i've already accepted that i'm at least sort of in the family anyway.  



Burn it down. Burn the whole thread. Set it alight, I say.



Runa216 said:
JRPGfan said:

All that would be okay... if games didn't cost a fortune to make, and if they don't sell well, the company that made them, risk closure.

So yes, its great there are games that appeal to say "gay black trans women" (the example you used).
However, if the bigger part of the public, don't want a game, that appeals to "gay black trans women" (as they aren't that, and cant identify with it), that is a issue.

Because
1) people are not getting what they want (and the consumer, is always right.... ei. things won't sell well otherwise). Which sucks for the majority.
Great for that 1 gay black trans guy, that loves the game though (as you point out) (but how many of them are buying games?).

2) AAA games, cannot take, appealing to a minority, if it kills sales.
Look at something like Concord/suicide squad kill the justice league..., next to Marvel Rivals. This woke stuff, doesn't appeal to enough people

Some "old greats" studios like Bioware, is now at risk of closing down.
Ubisoft, could also fall apart....  and they both bet everything on going super woke, with their upcoming games.
What happends if Mass effect and the new Assasins Creeds, sales are bad? Bioware cannot take another Dragon Age Veilguard with sales (people are saying).
Ubisoft apparently bleed like 1.5bn in 2024, or something crazy like that.
They dropped like 85%+ of the shares value as a company.   Assasin Creeds Shadows flops... and its over potentially for them.

So while the anti-woke might want to see what they deem too woke, doing poorly  (if you don't like something, why support it?).
I think most overall want the best for companies. They want them to make great games, that appeal to the masses, and sell well.

Meanwhile the woke side, is cheering on all this stuff, that appeals to a tiny minority of people, even if its potentially hurting sales.
Its going to lead to companies closing down.  Ei. the market will contract/shrink = less games for everyone.

what are you talking about? None of this post is rooted in reality. I genuinely don't even know what to argue against because it genuinely feels like you do not live in the same objective reality as I do and you're working backwards to construct a fantasy that justifies your conclusion. 

Straw Man.

I was legitimately going to go down every paragraph you wrote and ask why you felt that way or why you felt it mattered (like seriously who cares what the game's budget is? Focus testing groups ruined the PS3 era and...exactly, just trying to contest this one point has me trying to do a deep-dive on why it doesn't matter and ain't nobody got time for that), but my eyes glazed over when I Realized exactly what I Was worried about in a previous post. One small foolish statement needs like five paragraphs explaining why it's five steps removed from reality. 

You're sincerely just making things up and presenting your fantasy version of reality to justify your stance. I cannot correct that. The statements you're making just don't fit with reality. The claims your making are not based on facts. nobody can argue with that. 

IF you don't want to see diversity in representation, then fine. Play Baldur's Gate as a straight white human. You're allowed to do that. Buy Call of Duty. You're allowed to do that. you don't have to chose trans pronouns or engage with queer relationships in games, and even if a game is explicitly queer, you're free to just not buy it. You're free to only buy games that match your very narrow view of what is acceptable. There are always going to be dozens of traditional games. 

And I repeat from earlier (maybe not in response to you in particular), if you actually cared about shifting trends and actually cared about the direction of the medium you would just be voting with your wallet, not ranting about it online. Voting with your wallet gives the message 'this is what I Want, and this is what I will support' while ranting about it and aggressively screaming about wokeness sends a message of 'not only do I not want this but this shouldn't be allowed'.

Which is the difference. You rant because you want to send a message and because you want to silence voices of those who don't cater to you. Instead of...you know, letting the rest of us who DO want that sort of thing to be able to support it. I DO want queer representation. I DO want nonbinary terms and weird niche shit in games even if it's not for me. How dare you act like I'm wrong for that or the developers are wrong for accepting that I and others like me want those games. 

Seriously, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Unironically that's what most people do (like 2/3rds) (if we ignore dragon born, for its special).

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/baldurs-gate-3-most-popular-races-classes/

human, half-elf, elf... are the most popular picks by far.  People play as normal looking straight white humans... or as close to as possible.


"you should be ashamed of yourself"

That's just more name calling.
You disagree with someones view point, and say they should be ashamed of themselves? really?



"You're sincerely just making things up and presenting your fantasy version of reality to justify your stance. I cannot correct that. The statements you're making just don't fit with reality. The claims your making are not based on facts."

Ubisoft 4-5years ago, had a stock value of 85 euro pr share.
Today their stock value pr share is barely above 12 euro pr share.
They lost alot of value as a company.
They spent a fortune on making games, this year.

Bioware, is at risk..... how is that made up? They made like 3-4 flops in a row.... EA has a graveyard of studios they killed, for not being profitable enough.
If Mass Effect isn't profitable, they could be closed down.

"while ranting about it and aggressively screaming about wokeness sends a message of 'not only do I not want this but this shouldn't be allowed'."

I think the problem is we view wokeness as different things.
There has long been representation in video games.  You can't act like its a new thing there are women, black characters ect in games.
Even gay or lesbian characters,.... that stuff has been around forever.

I don't even say that it shouldn't be allowed.... I'm saying when woke goes in overdrive,.... its killing studios.
Because it does not appeal to enough people.  While the masses are let down, by the effects it has on games.

Seriously look at the character designs in concord, that cames from DEI/woke policies.
The public rejected it, they didn't like the characters.  Stuff like that has consequences.
The studio is now closed, and people were let go... and Sony lost like 400m on it.

Basically this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzbqav7eDZs

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 31 December 2024

Artist Nam Hyoung Taek has once again drawn Eve for us. We're very grateful for this, but we always welcome fan art in the style of the previous one. It's not uncommon for fan art to have more of the artist's style than the original, and we think that's a very important and enjoyable point. It's been a rough year in 2024, not just in Korea, but around the world. We hope everyone is living in LOVE! #StellarBlade #Fanart #LOVELOVELOVE

----

Even their precious developer is telling people to stop being fucking weirdos and having to teach them basic concepts about art.

They'll be no self-reflection though, onto the next rage-bait to grift my channels to relevancy!