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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Is it feasible for the Switch 2 to have performance near Xbox Series S level at 400$?

 

Is it feasible for Switch 2 to have performance near Series S level at 400$?

Yes, pretty close in performance 20 34.48%
 
Not really, not close but... 28 48.28%
 
No, Switch 2 would be far... 10 17.24%
 
Total:58

I think it'll be more comparable overall to the PS4 Pro, which would still be great for a hybrid.

Games will run at lower native resolutions than the average PS4 Pro game, but at higher graphical fidelity and settings.



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Pemalite said:
Radek said:

Do you really think Switch 2 GPU could compare to RTX 3050? You mean the laptop version, right?

I don't see why it wouldn't compare. Both are Ampere.
Also depends on the 3050.

nVidia did release 6x variants of the 3050, one of the desktop parts are ironically slower than one of the mobile.

But the mobile RTX 3050 can beat the Radeon 6500XT.

Chrkeller said:

Docked a 3050 seems reasonable. It matches Higgin's ranking in my experience.  My 3050 ran games significantly worse than the ps5, but somewhere between a ps4 and ps4 pro.  

The other thing that fits Higgins' position is Halo Infinite indoors versus outdoors.  In doors the game, on my 3050, ran + looked good.  Outdoors left a lot to be desires, it struggled with fps and quality texturing.

The texturing and frame rates is more to do with the limited vram buffer rather than the GPU itself, nVidia is stingy when it comes to memory... And they have been holding back low-end and mid-range GPU's for years on that aspect.

Which makes sense.  The 3050 did well enough on smaller scope games, like RE4, but with open world it fell apart quite quickly. 



There are ways the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X will be superior to it, mostly in the same way they are to the Series S -- average internal resolution of titles is higher on these consoles. 

But yeah, games should look and run overall better on Switch 2 than they did on PS4 Pro/Xbox One X when you consider all aspects, not just image quality. 

I think the range of quality-per-performance is pretty narrow given what we know, with 8nm vs. 4nm determining if it is at the lower end of this range or upper end (intermediate nodes like 7nm would put it in between.) 8nm probably means Nintendo is going to allow power levels to go much higher in docked mode than they did in the original Switch, because otherwise it doesn't make sense as a node, so that could make up for being less efficient vs. a lower powered 4nm chip. 

Z1 (non-extreme) to RTX 3050 (Laptop) includes systems that all perform pretty similarly. Those are basically what you get in entry level $400-$500 gaming laptops or RDNA 3 mini-PCs/handhelds of a similar price. So $400 shouldn't be a stretch for Nintendo, and they might have some budget leeway to add a nicer display. 

I don't think most console gamers would complain or really notice the difference between this level of performance and the Series S. It basically amounts to a resolution difference that most casual gamers don't perceive well, especially if DLSS can make up some of the difference by being superior to console FSR. 



Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

Yes, correct.

That post was more about graphics, which seems to be the bigger focus for most who are curious. Switch 2 should probably end up deemed satisfactory by most when it comes to it's GPU, but won't be as performant when it comes to its CPU, and will likely leave a little to be desired.

It would be kinda similar to XB1 or PS4 in that way. The GPU's were reasonably adequate (PS4 more so than XB1), but their CPU's didn't wow gamers. Now that was less of a choice and pretty much all AMD could offer SNY and MS at the time with their Jaguar cores, which is why we don't have that problem this gen due to AMD's huge leap with their (Ry)Zen cores.

This is why I placed Switch 2 between PS4 and PS4 Pro in my other post here earlier (below). That's my guess based on everything, not just GPU.

EricHiggin said:

Where I would guess Switch 2 ends up slotting into the mix overall:

Switch
XB1
PS4
Switch 2
PS4 Pro
XB1X & XBSS
PS5 & XBSX
PS5 Pro

I think it will be around as capable as the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 pro.. Mostly due to the terrible Jaguar CPU Cores and the old and outdated Polaris based Graphics Core Next GPU... But unlike those 8th gen consoles, it won't be wasting bandwidth and compute chasing 4k.

Remember that the Radeon RX 580 is clocked at 1.257Ghz - 1.340Ghz... And the Playstation 4 Pro is the same GPU Core layout but clocked at 0.911Ghz, the One X is 1.172Ghz with a few extra CU's.

And yet RDNA2 is significantly faster... As the Radeon RX 6600XT can offer a performance increase of 60-100% (Almost double) of the Radeon RX 580 despite having identical bandwidth.
https://hwbench.com/vgas/radeon-rx-6600-vs-radeon-rx-580

Which bodes well for something like the Geforce RTX 3050 which should offer relatively similar capabilities in terms of overall performance... But with added features like improved DCC, Ray Tracing, Tensor Cores, DLSS, Frame Gen and more.

And then you have the Series S. - Which is essentially a Radeon 6500XT but with the bandwidth of the vanilla 6600... So it should fall roughly in between those parts, which again... The RTX 3050 would compare extremely well against... Especially once you start using Ray Tracing.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/nvidia-rtx-3050-vs-amd-rx-6600-faceoff

Obviously nothing is confirmed yet on any level as we don't know what the hardware in the next-gen Switch is. - But I can't stress how good nVidia is right now verses AMD.

At $499 I could potentially see Switch 2 slotting in between PS4 Pro and XBSS maybe, but I'm guessing that even though Nin might want to hit that mark, I'm figuring they're going to play it at least a little safe because that's been their approach since Wii in terms of hardware performance.

I think Nin knowing where PS5 and XBSX were in terms of performance and price in 2020, and where they are now, still at $499, to me Nin would likely want to come in below that, and companies in general, especially console companies, like to launch with $99 pricing instead of $49. This makes me assume Nin would probably go with a $399 price point, and since they are very unlikely to subsidize, that means the hardware will be worth around $399 itself. Even if Nin went with a $449 price, that could very well end up being $50 in profit per unit.

A big factor will be how hard Nin decides to push the docked mode. Switch was pretty tame in terms of docked performance, so will Nin do the same this time, bump it up a fair bit more, or push it as hard as they reasonably can?

As you say though, we don't know anything for certain and we're just guessing with what we think we know, which doesn't hold much water at the moment. The closer consoles get to launch however, the more whittled down and more accurate the leaks tend to become, so we may not be too far off either.



sc94597 said:

There are ways the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X will be superior to it, mostly in the same way they are to the Series S -- average internal resolution of titles is higher on these consoles. 

But it comes at a cost to visual quality.
The Series S games do look and run better than the One X/Playstation 4 Pro, it's just a softer output.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
sc94597 said:

There are ways the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X will be superior to it, mostly in the same way they are to the Series S -- average internal resolution of titles is higher on these consoles. 

But it comes at a cost to visual quality.
The Series S games do look and run better than the One X/Playstation 4 Pro, it's just a softer output.

Yeah, the next paragraph addresses that. 

"But yeah, games should look and run overall better on Switch 2 than they did on PS4 Pro/Xbox One X when you consider all aspects, not just image quality. "



I think Switch 2 will be largly a 30 fps machine for third party games. But given the graphics quality Nintendo aims for in their own games I could see 60 fps being standard. We had many 30 fps exclusives this and past year, and new Zelda coming this week is 30 fps as well on Switch 1.



Undocked -> Around Xbox One/PS4
Docked -> around PS4 pro
Not quite on XSS due to limits on bandwidth.

But maybe it is more than enough. One of the most visually stunning games nowadays are last gen games.
Look at Horizon forbidden west, ghost of tsushima, even rise son of rome.
Include new technology that boost FPS and resolution, adds ray-tracing, switch 2 would be OK.

Specifically, I think DLSS has a greater potential than we see today on PCs.
It is a general model for all kind of visuals, however, in Deep learning, finetuning models for specific tasks is what is really boosting results.
They could include in the dev kits the necessary software for finetunning the DLSS models specific for each game.
Giving it is a fixed hardware, you know exactly what to expect from the native render target from the switch 2 version. And finetune the DLSS to this specific pairs. Nowadays we have methods such LoRA that allow fast finetune, and having to store only the difference from the general model.
I think this different would be bigger for smaller (720 or lower) render resolutions, where DLSS struggle the most.