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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Is it feasible for the Switch 2 to have performance near Xbox Series S level at 400$?

 

Is it feasible for Switch 2 to have performance near Series S level at 400$?

Yes, pretty close in performance 20 34.48%
 
Not really, not close but... 28 48.28%
 
No, Switch 2 would be far... 10 17.24%
 
Total:58

I'd take anything as long as its more powerful than the Switch and they can make crazy looking good games like Luigi's Mansion 3.



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I think the best way to think about it, given what we know currently, is that Switch 2 (when docked) is probably going to be anywhere between the original Rog Ally Z1 (non-extreme) (if on 8nm node) to maybe slightly better than an RTX 3050 Laptop 35W (if on 4nm node) in terms of performance. 

That puts it about a half GPU-tier to quarter GPU-tier below the Series S. 

The Rog Ally plays games at similar graphics settings and framerates as the Series S with about 50-70% the internal resolution of the Series S. An RTX 3050 Laptop 35W does similar at about 70-80% the internal resolution of the Series S. 

That's what we should probably expected for a docked Switch 2. 

In handheld mode, I'd expect Steam Deck OLED 12W level of performance, assuming it is on the 4nm node, moderately less performant if on 8nm. 

In 2025, when the platform releases, this would be a mid-range gaming handheld. By then the top-range handhelds will match and maybe even exceed Series S performance levels, having the Z2E from AMD or possibly Lunar Lake chipsets now that Intel is competitive. These will cost $600+. 

Last edited by sc94597 - on 21 September 2024

I'm fairly certain it's technically feasible, but there's two problems with it:

  • It would probably mean a bulkier system more like the Steam Deck than the Switch
  • Nintendo likes to make profit on the hardware itself and this definitely would not

But yeah with upscaling and what not percieved performance could still end up comparable, we'll just have to see.



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We go through this shit every gen.



EricHiggin said:

XBSS uses around 75w when gaming, and the SOC is 7nm.

Switch 2 docked maybe 25w possibly, and the SOC is supposedly 8nm. (Switch docked is around 12w I believe)

Switch 2 will have newer tech and features like DLSS, but it's not going to get super close to XBSS. It won't exactly be way far behind either though.

Switch 2 at $500 however, assuming that's legit and not mostly greedy profits, should get you in the XBSS ballpark in docked mode.

Keep in mind the Series S released almost 4 years ago.
It's built at TSMC 7nm.

Tegra Ampere started to sample in 2021, which is 3 years ago.
It's built at Samsung 8nm... Which is basically a tweaked/enhanced 10nm process.

The AMD CPU -will- be more potent in regards to performance per/watt.
nVidia is a few generations ahead of AMD on the GPU side of the equation which will help erode any advantages for the Series S GPU.

Random_Matt said:

We go through this shit every gen.

We really do.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

XBSS uses around 75w when gaming, and the SOC is 7nm.

Switch 2 docked maybe 25w possibly, and the SOC is supposedly 8nm. (Switch docked is around 12w I believe)

Switch 2 will have newer tech and features like DLSS, but it's not going to get super close to XBSS. It won't exactly be way far behind either though.

Switch 2 at $500 however, assuming that's legit and not mostly greedy profits, should get you in the XBSS ballpark in docked mode.

Keep in mind the Series S released almost 4 years ago.
It's built at TSMC 7nm.

Tegra Ampere started to sample in 2021, which is 3 years ago.
It's built at Samsung 8nm... Which is basically a tweaked/enhanced 10nm process.

The AMD CPU -will- be more potent in regards to performance per/watt.
nVidia is a few generations ahead of AMD on the GPU side of the equation which will help erode any advantages for the Series S GPU.

Yes, correct.

That post was more about graphics, which seems to be the bigger focus for most who are curious. Switch 2 should probably end up deemed satisfactory by most when it comes to it's GPU, but won't be as performant when it comes to its CPU, and will likely leave a little to be desired.

It would be kinda similar to XB1 or PS4 in that way. The GPU's were reasonably adequate (PS4 more so than XB1), but their CPU's didn't wow gamers. Now that was less of a choice and pretty much all AMD could offer SNY and MS at the time with their Jaguar cores, which is why we don't have that problem this gen due to AMD's huge leap with their (Ry)Zen cores.

This is why I placed Switch 2 between PS4 and PS4 Pro in my other post here earlier (below). That's my guess based on everything, not just GPU.

EricHiggin said:

Where I would guess Switch 2 ends up slotting into the mix overall:

Switch
XB1
PS4
Switch 2
PS4 Pro
XB1X & XBSS
PS5 & XBSX
PS5 Pro



EricHiggin said:
Pemalite said:

Keep in mind the Series S released almost 4 years ago.
It's built at TSMC 7nm.

Tegra Ampere started to sample in 2021, which is 3 years ago.
It's built at Samsung 8nm... Which is basically a tweaked/enhanced 10nm process.

The AMD CPU -will- be more potent in regards to performance per/watt.
nVidia is a few generations ahead of AMD on the GPU side of the equation which will help erode any advantages for the Series S GPU.

Yes, correct.

That post was more about graphics, which seems to be the bigger focus for most who are curious. Switch 2 should probably end up deemed satisfactory by most when it comes to it's GPU, but won't be as performant when it comes to its CPU, and will likely leave a little to be desired.

It would be kinda similar to XB1 or PS4 in that way. The GPU's were reasonably adequate (PS4 more so than XB1), but their CPU's didn't wow gamers. Now that was less of a choice and pretty much all AMD could offer SNY and MS at the time with their Jaguar cores, which is why we don't have that problem this gen due to AMD's huge leap with their (Ry)Zen cores.

This is why I placed Switch 2 between PS4 and PS4 Pro in my other post here earlier (below). That's my guess based on everything, not just GPU.

EricHiggin said:

Where I would guess Switch 2 ends up slotting into the mix overall:

Switch
XB1
PS4
Switch 2
PS4 Pro
XB1X & XBSS
PS5 & XBSX
PS5 Pro

I think it will be around as capable as the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 pro.. Mostly due to the terrible Jaguar CPU Cores and the old and outdated Polaris based Graphics Core Next GPU... But unlike those 8th gen consoles, it won't be wasting bandwidth and compute chasing 4k.

Remember that the Radeon RX 580 is clocked at 1.257Ghz - 1.340Ghz... And the Playstation 4 Pro is the same GPU Core layout but clocked at 0.911Ghz, the One X is 1.172Ghz with a few extra CU's.

And yet RDNA2 is significantly faster... As the Radeon RX 6600XT can offer a performance increase of 60-100% (Almost double) of the Radeon RX 580 despite having identical bandwidth.
https://hwbench.com/vgas/radeon-rx-6600-vs-radeon-rx-580

Which bodes well for something like the Geforce RTX 3050 which should offer relatively similar capabilities in terms of overall performance... But with added features like improved DCC, Ray Tracing, Tensor Cores, DLSS, Frame Gen and more.

And then you have the Series S. - Which is essentially a Radeon 6500XT but with the bandwidth of the vanilla 6600... So it should fall roughly in between those parts, which again... The RTX 3050 would compare extremely well against... Especially once you start using Ray Tracing.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/nvidia-rtx-3050-vs-amd-rx-6600-faceoff

Obviously nothing is confirmed yet on any level as we don't know what the hardware in the next-gen Switch is. - But I can't stress how good nVidia is right now verses AMD.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

Yes, correct.

That post was more about graphics, which seems to be the bigger focus for most who are curious. Switch 2 should probably end up deemed satisfactory by most when it comes to it's GPU, but won't be as performant when it comes to its CPU, and will likely leave a little to be desired.

It would be kinda similar to XB1 or PS4 in that way. The GPU's were reasonably adequate (PS4 more so than XB1), but their CPU's didn't wow gamers. Now that was less of a choice and pretty much all AMD could offer SNY and MS at the time with their Jaguar cores, which is why we don't have that problem this gen due to AMD's huge leap with their (Ry)Zen cores.

This is why I placed Switch 2 between PS4 and PS4 Pro in my other post here earlier (below). That's my guess based on everything, not just GPU.

EricHiggin said:

Where I would guess Switch 2 ends up slotting into the mix overall:

Switch
XB1
PS4
Switch 2
PS4 Pro
XB1X & XBSS
PS5 & XBSX
PS5 Pro

I think it will be around as capable as the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 pro.. Mostly due to the terrible Jaguar CPU Cores and the old and outdated Polaris based Graphics Core Next GPU... But unlike those 8th gen consoles, it won't be wasting bandwidth and compute chasing 4k.

Remember that the Radeon RX 580 is clocked at 1.257Ghz - 1.340Ghz... And the Playstation 4 Pro is the same GPU Core layout but clocked at 0.911Ghz, the One X is 1.172Ghz with a few extra CU's.

And yet RDNA2 is significantly faster... As the Radeon RX 6600XT can offer a performance increase of 60-100% (Almost double) of the Radeon RX 580 despite having identical bandwidth.
https://hwbench.com/vgas/radeon-rx-6600-vs-radeon-rx-580

Which bodes well for something like the Geforce RTX 3050 which should offer relatively similar capabilities in terms of overall performance... But with added features like improved DCC, Ray Tracing, Tensor Cores, DLSS, Frame Gen and more.

And then you have the Series S. - Which is essentially a Radeon 6500XT but with the bandwidth of the vanilla 6600... So it should fall roughly in between those parts, which again... The RTX 3050 would compare extremely well against... Especially once you start using Ray Tracing.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/nvidia-rtx-3050-vs-amd-rx-6600-faceoff

Obviously nothing is confirmed yet on any level as we don't know what the hardware in the next-gen Switch is. - But I can't stress how good nVidia is right now verses AMD.

Do you really think Switch 2 GPU could compare to RTX 3050? You mean the laptop version, right?



Docked a 3050 seems reasonable. It matches Higgin's ranking in my experience.  My 3050 ran games significantly worse than the ps5, but somewhere between a ps4 and ps4 pro.  

The other thing that fits Higgins' position is Halo Infinite indoors versus outdoors.  In doors the game, on my 3050, ran + looked good.  Outdoors left a lot to be desires, it struggled with fps and quality texturing.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 22 September 2024

Radek said:
Pemalite said:

I think it will be around as capable as the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 pro.. Mostly due to the terrible Jaguar CPU Cores and the old and outdated Polaris based Graphics Core Next GPU... But unlike those 8th gen consoles, it won't be wasting bandwidth and compute chasing 4k.

Remember that the Radeon RX 580 is clocked at 1.257Ghz - 1.340Ghz... And the Playstation 4 Pro is the same GPU Core layout but clocked at 0.911Ghz, the One X is 1.172Ghz with a few extra CU's.

And yet RDNA2 is significantly faster... As the Radeon RX 6600XT can offer a performance increase of 60-100% (Almost double) of the Radeon RX 580 despite having identical bandwidth.
https://hwbench.com/vgas/radeon-rx-6600-vs-radeon-rx-580

Which bodes well for something like the Geforce RTX 3050 which should offer relatively similar capabilities in terms of overall performance... But with added features like improved DCC, Ray Tracing, Tensor Cores, DLSS, Frame Gen and more.

And then you have the Series S. - Which is essentially a Radeon 6500XT but with the bandwidth of the vanilla 6600... So it should fall roughly in between those parts, which again... The RTX 3050 would compare extremely well against... Especially once you start using Ray Tracing.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/nvidia-rtx-3050-vs-amd-rx-6600-faceoff

Obviously nothing is confirmed yet on any level as we don't know what the hardware in the next-gen Switch is. - But I can't stress how good nVidia is right now verses AMD.

Do you really think Switch 2 GPU could compare to RTX 3050? You mean the laptop version, right?

I don't see why it wouldn't compare. Both are Ampere.
Also depends on the 3050.

nVidia did release 6x variants of the 3050, one of the desktop parts are ironically slower than one of the mobile.

But the mobile RTX 3050 can beat the Radeon 6500XT.

Chrkeller said:

Docked a 3050 seems reasonable. It matches Higgin's ranking in my experience.  My 3050 ran games significantly worse than the ps5, but somewhere between a ps4 and ps4 pro.  

The other thing that fits Higgins' position is Halo Infinite indoors versus outdoors.  In doors the game, on my 3050, ran + looked good.  Outdoors left a lot to be desires, it struggled with fps and quality texturing.

The texturing and frame rates is more to do with the limited vram buffer rather than the GPU itself, nVidia is stingy when it comes to memory... And they have been holding back low-end and mid-range GPU's for years on that aspect.



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