From those saying that the issue is that Democrats are not connecting with Middle America, what I want to know is how could they? Because as far as I can tell the way Trump did it is to lie and that's not really what I want Democrats to do. Should they also tell Middle America that they'll solve all of their economic woes by funding the government through tariffs while ignoring the inflationary aspect of tariffs? Or that the issue of immigration is as simple as building a wall and ignoring the complications of the asylum seeking process.
I understand that politics is about winning in order to enact the changes you want to see, but I'm not sure that I can agree with blatantly lying and ignoring reality in order to get there. So far the only suggestion I've seen is to tell people that are complaining that eggs cost more than they did 4 years ago that the GDP is up and inflation is where the FED targets it. It just doesn't seem like a tenable solution to me.
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LurkerJ said:
Or it just means trumpism is unbeatable and Biden lucked out with Covid in 2020. I can list the 10 ways things could’ve been differently but when Arabs vote for the guy who promised further green lights to Netenyahu when Gill Stein is on the ticket… there is no fucking words. Neoliberalism hasn’t helped but Biden has done a damn good job reversing those policies. To think Trump talked about repealing the chips act and still won. There are no words. |
Yeah, I'm 100% convinced now that Biden got lucky, if not for COVID, Trump would have stomped him too.
And yes, Biden actually introduced a lot of great acts which help Americans; The American Rescue Plan Act, Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, The Chips and Science Act, Inflation Reduction Act, etc. Got down the price of things like Insulin. Investing in Green Energy and for all the "Drill Baby Drill" America actually drills more than ever. He did so after inheriting a battered economy due to COVID but by all accounts America has recovered better than most countries but all this gets overridden by Inflation because daily goods still are too high for the average consumer.
And Biden's foreign policy, it started strong with a lot of good decisions, I supported withdrawing from Afghanistan (though it was sloppy), he restored America's relationship with NATO/Europe and strengthened NATO. He stood up against Russia. He stopped a coup happening in Brazil (apparently). Ukraine was the first good military foreign policy intervention that America has done in decades, a clear example of good vs evil and for once America was on the side of good! Now they're going to throw that away and go back to zero redeeming foreign policy features and wonder why everyone hates them.
Biden's foreign policy in the last year has been a disaster though, far too much support for Israel and too much dragging their feet with Ukraine and pissing their pants at upsetting Russia. Now couple this with Biden not stepping aside soon enough and Democrats losing the election, Biden will likely go down as one of the worst Presidents in recent history. If he took his foreign policy decisions on Ukraine/Israel and reversed them (I.E. More restriction for Israel, less restriction for Ukraine) and Inflation didn't exist (which largely isn't his fault) then he would have gone down as one of the best.
But I can invent alternative realities all day, this is the one we live in.
Torillian said: From those saying that the issue is that Democrats are not connecting with Middle America, what I want to know is how could they? Because as far as I can tell the way Trump did it is to lie and that's not really what I want Democrats to do. Should they also tell Middle America that they'll solve all of their economic woes by funding the government through tariffs while ignoring the inflationary aspect of tariffs? Or that the issue of immigration is as simple as building a wall and ignoring the complications of the asylum seeking process. I understand that politics is about winning in order to enact the changes you want to see, but I'm not sure that I can agree with blatantly lying and ignoring reality in order to get there. So far the only suggestion I've seen is to tell people that are complaining that eggs cost more than they did 4 years ago that the GDP is up and inflation is where the FED targets it. It just doesn't seem like a tenable solution to me. |
Exactly.
And those saying that Democrats said too many mean things about Republicans are ignorant of the situation in the United States, where Republicans have called Democrats godless communists and every other name under the sun. And acted on those names in areas where they had the political power to do so.
If a Democrat said about Texas, Florida, or Alabama what Republicans regularly say about California, namely that they hope California is destroyed in a killer earthquake, it would be national news.
Torillian said: From those saying that the issue is that Democrats are not connecting with Middle America, what I want to know is how could they? Because as far as I can tell the way Trump did it is to lie and that's not really what I want Democrats to do. Should they also tell Middle America that they'll solve all of their economic woes by funding the government through tariffs while ignoring the inflationary aspect of tariffs? Or that the issue of immigration is as simple as building a wall and ignoring the complications of the asylum seeking process. I understand that politics is about winning in order to enact the changes you want to see, but I'm not sure that I can agree with blatantly lying and ignoring reality in order to get there. So far the only suggestion I've seen is to tell people that are complaining that eggs cost more than they did 4 years ago that the GDP is up and inflation is where the FED targets it. It just doesn't seem like a tenable solution to me. |
It has been answered already. Drop special interest and focus on big ticket items. Let us use an example. Liberals get excited about green energy. What middle America hears is "increased regulation, loss of jobs and cost of good increase." Green energy DOES NOT resonant with middle America. If you want to argue it should, fair enough, but that isn't reality. This is just one example. There are plenty of others.
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Torillian said: From those saying that the issue is that Democrats are not connecting with Middle America, what I want to know is how could they? Because as far as I can tell the way Trump did it is to lie and that's not really what I want Democrats to do. Should they also tell Middle America that they'll solve all of their economic woes by funding the government through tariffs while ignoring the inflationary aspect of tariffs? Or that the issue of immigration is as simple as building a wall and ignoring the complications of the asylum seeking process. I understand that politics is about winning in order to enact the changes you want to see, but I'm not sure that I can agree with blatantly lying and ignoring reality in order to get there. So far the only suggestion I've seen is to tell people that are complaining that eggs cost more than they did 4 years ago that the GDP is up and inflation is where the FED targets it. It just doesn't seem like a tenable solution to me. |
Kamala lied and I'd say in a more scummy way than trump. She ran ads in different states with different promises that contradicted the ads ran in other states. Ones where she'd say she funding for Isreal and then in a Jewish population say she believes Isreal has the right to defend itself and support would be given.
Trump doesn't know what he's saying half the time, I don't think he intentionally lies, he's just really dumb and self centered. Kamala lies felt more scummy cause she's supposed to be the mature one, Trump is the idiot everyone can laugh at, somehow he gets away with lying. Like he said at one point, he could shoot someone in times square and he'd still have support the next day.
Chrkeller said:
It has been answered already. Drop special interest and focus on big ticket items. Let us use an example. Liberals get excited about green energy. What middle America hears is "increased regulation, loss of jobs and cost of good increase." Green energy DOES NOT resonant with middle America. If you want to argue it should, fair enough, but that isn't reality. This is just one example. There are plenty of others.   |
The problem is more that middle America isn't connecting with reality.
The reality is the best days are behind us. The Democrats seem to try to find a way to navigate the looming energy/water/environmental/refugee crises. The Republicans get the vote on promising the impossible, traveling back in time.
Education has failed in the USA and things will only get harder. Sticking your head in the sand and build a wall around it isn't going to solve anything.
Electoral College.
Senate.
House.
Popular Vote.
Mandate. I think I'll have my handmaiden bring me a cigar to celebrate this great day.
"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"
SvennoJ said:
The problem is more that middle America isn't connecting with reality. |
I don't personally disagree but let me ask you this. How are liberals going to create legislative change when they don't hold office? At some point you have to win. And to be clear, I do not personally agree with the following, but middle America hates things such as easy citizenship, reparation talks, gun control discussion, mpg mandates, CRT, debt forgiveness, trans in sports, etc., etc.
Lose the battle but win the war is something liberals need to wrap their head around. Liberals will never hold power as long as they push things middle America hates. That my friend, is REALITY.
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Ryuu96 said: She lost because of the economy I.E. Inflation/Grocery Prices, Imho. But on the flip side, if there weren't so many people comfortable with knowingly voting for a fascist, she wouldn't have lost, and that's the scary thing to me. Hatred and bigotry won. America is rotten to its core, a lot of people comfortable with fascism and a poor education system wherein people will vote for a convicted felon and man who tried to overthrow democracy because they foolishly believe he will bring the price of their bread and eggs down. I am trying not to be mad at Americans as a whole but it's difficult, I really despise America as a country right now |
This. This is why you lose.
I understand you're coping and seething right now. But if liberals ever want to win anything again, you must be retrospective.
"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"