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Forums - Sales Discussion - FF7 Rebirth has reportedly sold half what Remake did in the same timeframe

Kai_Mao said:

I think Square missed a really good opportunity to get an original Final Fantasy on Switch. It didn’t necessarily have to be a graphical marvel, but something close to XIII’s graphics would’ve been fine. Think of Final Fantasy’s answer to MHRise. It could’ve been turn based or action turn based like Xenoblade Chronicles. Switch has a user base of over 100 million and has an impressive catalogue of first and third party JRPGs, both old and new.

But alas, if Square still finds being exclusive to Sony with their current FF content would be more beneficial than expanding their audience/platforms, more power to them. At this time, it does not seem like the franchise is finding growth. It’s not dying, but it’s not finding that momentum that it once had from VI-XII. Zelda, considered a long time contemporary to FF, managed to expend its audience even as an exclusive to Nintendo’s platforms. As great as the recent games have been, FF just hasn’t been able to have that breakthrough sales performance this Gen.

This could've been a good idea I feel as not only would a game built to Switch spec be cheaper to make than an AAA PS4/5 title, but you could easily and affordably give it a 60fps/4K port to PS/Xbox/PC.

Such a title could help reinvigorate interest in FF in Japan where it has lost a great deal of the sway it once held.



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Otter said:

Ever since the series starting deviating so strongly from it's old styling, it's crazy to me that square haven't done a spinoff final fantasy series which is essentially made in the vision of the PS1 classics (7, 8, 9).... 

Similar level of narrative ambition, same ambition with art direction, so fully proportioned characters, not chibby esque (Bravely Default/WOFF) or HD pixel art. Same level of commited effort for battle animations and camera angles, so the camera actually being active/cinematic (unlike Bravely default etc), characters fully running up to enemies when attack, still turn based....

That's kind of what Ever Crisis is. Also the rumored remake of FF9.

Beyond that unfortunately SE  has said they're going to cut down on AA releases if anything. Like the rest of the industry, they're going to be leaning more on safe AAA multiplatform releases of known franchises instead of experimenting.



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:
Otter said:

Ever since the series starting deviating so strongly from it's old styling, it's crazy to me that square haven't done a spinoff final fantasy series which is essentially made in the vision of the PS1 classics (7, 8, 9).... 

Similar level of narrative ambition, same ambition with art direction, so fully proportioned characters, not chibby esque (Bravely Default/WOFF) or HD pixel art. Same level of commited effort for battle animations and camera angles, so the camera actually being active/cinematic (unlike Bravely default etc), characters fully running up to enemies when attack, still turn based....

That's kind of what Ever Crisis is. Also the rumored remake of FF9.

Beyond that unfortunately SE  has said they're going to cut down on AA releases if anything. Like the rest of the industry, they're going to be leaning more on safe AAA multiplatform releases of known franchises instead of experimenting.

That’s like the opposite of what they should do…



Otter said:

Ever since the series starting deviating so strongly from it's old styling, it's crazy to me that square haven't done a spinoff final fantasy series which is essentially made in the vision of the PS1 classics (7, 8, 9).... 

Similar level of narrative ambition, same ambition with art direction, so fully proportioned characters, not chibby esque (Bravely Default/WOFF) or HD pixel art. Same level of commited effort for battle animations and camera angles, so the camera actually being active/cinematic (unlike Bravely default etc), characters fully running up to enemies when attack, still turn based....

But a return to text boxes instead of every character being voiced, exploration is a modern equivalent of the prerendered backgrounds with fixed cameras, a return to world maps, only the big set pieces being fleshed out into full on cutscenes (similar the PS1 classics) , fixed camera angles mean less environmental work. A good level of detail but not photorealistic like the newer games.


A title like this could actually match the current sales of mainline AAA Final Fantasy but at a fraction of the budget and hit all platforms including Switch. If they made FF8 and 9 in 2 years, they could make a similar scope title in 2 years and actually return to an era of frequent new and original Final Fantasy. This spin off series sit in-between the big AAA releases.

It seems they always want to be 'top' in their design and style for the main titles. FF7, 8 and 9 looked and played the best in that era. Even 10, X-2 and 12 have amazing gameplay and graphics of their era. They are trying to continue doing that still and I think the FF brand is what they want that to be, the 'top' (while releasing weird shit mobile games), yet it is odd that they havent' tried a spin off of more classic style of game, right?

But then they did, The Toyko RPG Factory was trying to do that. I Am Setsuna is a good game and even has ATB gameplay but I guess had less of a backing from SquEnix as it was a side project (had the chibi style you mentioned). I have not played their follow ups and their last was in 2019 and an action game. It didn't make the same kind of impact prehaps a Final Fantasy titled game might have.

They have now been absorbed by SquEnix, so doubt we will get anything of the kind you are talking about from them.

It would be good to see them (SquEnix) try their hand at what you are suggesting. An indepth RPG like FF 9 just in the modern era.

haxxiy said:

That's kind of what Ever Crisis is. Also the rumored remake of FF9.

Beyond that unfortunately SE  has said they're going to cut down on AA releases if anything. Like the rest of the industry, they're going to be leaning more on safe AAA multiplatform releases of known franchises instead of experimenting.

Ever Crisis is milking in all it's purest form. It's not a full new game with news characters and story just same in the style of 7-9. 

Not just some weird retelling of FF7 with gatcha mechanics. God I remember when the trailer first game out on this website, most comments where just people asking what it even was.

Make games, not money laundering services.



Hmm, pie.

SquareEnix did a fair bit of experimentation and variety latey and released a ton of A and AA titles... that bombed terribly. Their only big "recent-ish" success story was NieR Automata (which was something of a mircale for it to even exist in a AA -almost AAA- form, but they didn't develop it anyway). Octopath Traveler and Triangle Strategy were successful too, but OT2 underperformed even though it was superior to the first and released on all major platforms, as opposed to OT1 skipping Playstation entirely.

DragonQuest is stagnant and is yet to find its big moment in the west. Final Fantasy spinoffs like World of FF pretty much bombed despite being a good and charming little game and a return to classic ATB. Tokyo RPG Factory stuff were lowbudget and apparently extremely forgettable. The Diofield Chronicle and Babylon's Fall were major bombas. Valkyrie Elysium (still love how this game feels and I plan to get it), NEO TWEWY, and Stranger of Paradise bombed or underperformed too.

The (J)RPG community as a whole is very limited. It's easier for less popular titles like Xenoblade, or Persona, or NieR (barely an RPG) to find growth vs Final Fantasy which was already close to the cap and needs a miracle to break it. I guess FF16 being virtually an action "non-RPG" was their idea to breakthrough, and it didn't really go well. Perhaps they should go with an improved Rebirth formula for the next mainline entry and hope their writers don't screw up! Curious what they're going to do with DQ12.

Last edited by Kyuu - on 25 April 2024

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Kyuu said:

SquareEnix did a fair bit of experimentation and variety latey and released a ton of A and AA titles... that bombed terribly. Their only big "recent-ish" success story was NieR Automata (which was something of a mircale for it to even exist in a AA -almost AAA- form, but they didn't develop it anyway). Octopath Traveler and Triangle Strategy were successful too, but OT2 underperformed even though it was superior to the first and released on all major platforms, as opposed to OT1 skipping Playstation entirely.

DragonQuest is stagnant and is yet to find its big moment in the west. Final Fantasy spinoffs like World of FF pretty much bombed despite being a good and charming little game and a return to classic ATB. Tokyo RPG Factory stuff were lowbudget and apparently extremely forgettable. The Diofield Chronicle and Babylon's Fall were major bombas. Valkyrie Elysium (still love how this game feels and I plan to get it), NEO TWEWY, and Stranger of Paradise bombed or underperformed too.

The (J)RPG community as a whole is very limited. It's easier for less popular titles like Xenoblade, or Persona, or NieR (barely an RPG) to find growth vs Final Fantasy which was already close to the cap and needs a miracle to break it. I guess FF16 being virtually an action "non-RPG" was their idea to breakthrough, and it didn't really go well. Perhaps they should go with an improved Rebirth formula for the next mainline entry and hope their writers don't screw up! Curious what they're going to do with DQ12.

I could be the odd man out but square makes their games way to fricking big and lost a number of sales from me.  I liked Octo and was going to get the sequel until I read it was 60 hours....  I don't have time for more than one 60+ hour game a year, and that is saved for stuff like Tears. 

Again, it could just be me, but I'd square would do more 15 to 30 hour games, I would buy them.  

I loved Automata and Triangle.



Unpopular opinion, I think SE desperately needs a new successful IP more than a successful FF title. Square needs something like what Dragons Dogma (2) did for Capcom. A breakout IO thats succesful. DD 1 sold over 7.5 million units and the new one sold 2.5 million units in 11 days and its performing well enough for Capcom to call it a big success.

FF has dried up, another title might sell 5-7 million units or 0.5 million units more if it releases on Xbox as well, but the IP simply isn't as relevant anymore. So if Square continues to make FF titles, they should opt for making one that's profitable when selling 3.5 million units.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Chrkeller said:
Kyuu said:

SquareEnix did a fair bit of experimentation and variety latey and released a ton of A and AA titles... that bombed terribly. Their only big "recent-ish" success story was NieR Automata (which was something of a mircale for it to even exist in a AA -almost AAA- form, but they didn't develop it anyway). Octopath Traveler and Triangle Strategy were successful too, but OT2 underperformed even though it was superior to the first and released on all major platforms, as opposed to OT1 skipping Playstation entirely.

DragonQuest is stagnant and is yet to find its big moment in the west. Final Fantasy spinoffs like World of FF pretty much bombed despite being a good and charming little game and a return to classic ATB. Tokyo RPG Factory stuff were lowbudget and apparently extremely forgettable. The Diofield Chronicle and Babylon's Fall were major bombas. Valkyrie Elysium (still love how this game feels and I plan to get it), NEO TWEWY, and Stranger of Paradise bombed or underperformed too.

The (J)RPG community as a whole is very limited. It's easier for less popular titles like Xenoblade, or Persona, or NieR (barely an RPG) to find growth vs Final Fantasy which was already close to the cap and needs a miracle to break it. I guess FF16 being virtually an action "non-RPG" was their idea to breakthrough, and it didn't really go well. Perhaps they should go with an improved Rebirth formula for the next mainline entry and hope their writers don't screw up! Curious what they're going to do with DQ12.

I could be the odd man out but square makes their games way to fricking big and lost a number of sales from me.  I liked Octo and was going to get the sequel until I read it was 60 hours....  I don't have time for more than one 60+ hour game a year, and that is saved for stuff like Tears. 

Again, it could just be me, but I'd square would do more 15 to 30 hour games, I would buy them.  

I loved Automata and Triangle.

SquareEnix made plenty of those shorter games that you desire, but nobody bought them. They had decent ratings too.



I may be misreading the point of a couple of posters here but SE's experimental bombs did not happen in a vacuum.

SE had a big hand in fumbling the marketing and the timing of some of these releases, NEO TEWEY being a good example. OT1 had a much better marketing push than OT2 when Nintendo was the publisher outside Japan and, while there is no way measure the exact effect, it seems to have payed off, comparatively.

My point is that, while giving publishing chances to games that experiment is good, SE did not go all the way in properly supporting a lot of these releases.

Last edited by AddRat - on 26 April 2024

Qwark said:

Unpopular opinion, I think SE desperately needs a new successful IP more than a successful FF title.

There was Forspoken. It flopped to the point it stung SE enough for them not to try again for some time, which circles back to the point that making a successful game is hard...

AddRat said:

I may be misreading the point of a couple of posters here but SE's experimental bombs did not happen in a vacuum.

...and making successful AA games even more so. Whether SE was to blame or not, the fact is that this sort of game (AA titles) is bombing all across the industry despite internet claims for smaller budgets and shorter development cycles.