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Bofferbrauer2 said:
HoloDust said:

Well, Zelda II has actual experience and 3 stats (Attack, Magic, Life), and it could be argued that BotW/TotK have 2 stats (Health/Stamina), though they are gained by orbs and not XP, so those (especially Zelda II) might be considered action-RPGs, though yeah, for the most of its existence Zelda was action-adventure.

RPGs without combat are fairly common in its tabletop variety, especially if you take into account that pretty much any system that has unified resolution (that is, treats combat just as any other skill check) can just ignore combat all together if that's what a particular campaign is not about. In VG space, Disco Elysium is a good example of that.

I wonder if CRPG Addict will ever get to even the end of 90s, given there are some really long games from 1994 onward.

Yeah, Zelda II is the most RPG of the Zelda titles, and Botw/TotK are arguably also RPGs due to their progression.

And yes, several RPGs allow for pacifist runs, but most of them do have combat as a mechanic. Like you said, Disco Elysium is a good example of this. Age of Decadence is one where you can do this too if you know what you're doing. Graveyard Keeper also could be considered as an RPG without combat, though quantifying Graveyard Keeper as just one genre is pretty difficult...

Yeah, AoD is such a wonderful gem, though quite rough around the edges.

Pity that more devs don't try for non-combat video game RPGs - when you look at TTRPG market, you only need to move one step aside from D&D (and by extension Pathfinder) to immediately bump into Call of Cthulhu, where fighting is something that you really don't want to do.



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I don't understand why JRPGs are called JRPGs. Why not just call them RPGs?



TheLegendaryBigBoss said:

I don't understand why JRPGs are called JRPGs. Why not just call them RPGs?

Japanese RPGs at the time were very distinct to western RPGs, and by extension tabletop RPGs. Just compare Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy with something like Baldur's Gate, Ultima, Might & Magic, or on the tabletop side AD&D or Shadowrun.

It's not just visually, but also mechanically. In JRPGs status effects are generally very weak to the point of being basically useless. On classic western RPGs, status effects were vital for survival and generally the better choice over high damage spell "nukes". in JRPGs grinding is pretty much part of the gameplay, while many classic western RPGs had level caps or restrictions that made grinding unviable.

Also in JRPGs, the characters are normally set, while in western RPGs, you tend to create your character(s). It's the story of THE hero vs YOUR hero - or villain, which is another distinction. The me any JRPG where you play anything else than a hero..

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 19 February 2024

00Xander00 said:

What is it that makes a RPG and RPG, What are the basic foundations that determine what is a RPG?
I personally define RPG as a game were you build a character throughout the game (role playing game). The start of the game the character is weak or underdeveloped in skills, but by the end of the game your character is powerful and rich in skills.

And how has the original RPG evolved into nowadays RPG?
In the past RPGs were very numerical. It was very hard to find an RPG were you don't level up your character with a linear number system (number-based RPG). But now the formula has been experimented with in a range of ways that it can blur the line on whether a game is considered an RPG or not, from turn based, real time, action, strategy, collecting monsters, etc.
Hybrid genres can be non-RPG based yet still have RPG elements within it.
Final Fantasy has experimented with a range of mechanics over the years, from Group battles, turn-based, real time, action, etc.
Fire Emblem is a turn-based strategy RPG. A good example of a hybrid.
Zelda is an action-adventure, but it's also a pragmatic RPG because instead of increasing the numbers to build Link, the player used practical means to build the character like collecting items and abilities. He starts off weak and lost, but in the end he is a strong hero that can navigate to anywhere in the terrain. I also define Metroid (and other Metroidvania games) as pragmatic RPGs (including the main Resident Evil games) for the same reason.
Pokémon is a game were you collect creatures and train them up. This is like a subgenre of it's own.
Modern AAA RPGs tend to be action-based such as the Witcher 3. This has worked out well for many modern games.
Online multiplayer has added a dynamic that never existed before. MMORPGs like World of Warcraft stood out from single-player RPGs that came before it.
It's not just about new mechanics (but it mainly has been); themes have also evolved the genre over the years. Fallout is a western RPG that is themed in a post-nuclear environment, this is different from the stereotypical theme of a Medieval setting that western RPGs have done to death and beyond.

How does a RPG differ from a JRPG?
RPGs are typically western and have realistic western characters & western themes. Medieval themes tend to be the main setting such as Elder Scrolls, Might and Magic & World of Warcraft.
Whereas JRPGs tend to have an anime aesthetic and made in Japan with character being the main driver of storytelling rather than the lore. There is an emphasis on adventure & drama themes too. There are a lot of unusual creature designs in RPGs such as Final Fantasy enemies, dragon Quest, Pokémon, Monster Hunter etc.

Even though RPGs and JRPS are distinctively different, the lines can blur at times though such as Elden Ring.

What can be done to elevate the RPG (or JRPG) experience?
Nuance of game mechanics.
New themes.
Hybrid of genres (& themes).
VR :D
True A.I. (something that has never been done to the complex degree that I am thinking of (ChatGPT style).

What has been done to make the RPG (or JRPG) experience worse?
Linearity such as FF13.
Being too samey as other RPGs.


Dear OP, I hope my answers were helpful. Sounds like your making/design a game or writing an essay in game design :)

I do find you answers helpful.

I've had an idea that I want to become a reality, and I figured that I should understand more about what I want to make. So yes you are spot on there as well. I figured who better to ask than people who love games :)

Reading all of the posts have been really cool to learn about the history, changes, and what can be done.

When you say nuance of game mechanics for elevating the RPG experience, what do you mean?



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

An RPG is a game where you role play a character into making choices that influence the game in some capacity. Some games have RPG elements like a skill tree, but that doesn't make them an RPG. For example: Spider-man 2 is NOT an RPG because no matter what you do, the game always plays out the same. If the player could choose to be Venom or Spider-man and make decisions with a good, bad, or neutral result, then it would be an RPG.



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smroadkill15 said:

An RPG is a game where you role play a character into making choices that influence the game in some capacity. Some games have RPG elements like a skill tree, but that doesn't make them an RPG. For example: Spider-man 2 is NOT an RPG because no matter what you do, the game always plays out the same. If the player could choose to be Venom or Spider-man and make decisions with a good, bad, or neutral result, then it would be an RPG.

So that would also make Pokémon not an RPG?

Based on this an RPG has a flavor of customization where the story can change depending on your actions.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

Shtinamin_ said:
smroadkill15 said:

An RPG is a game where you role play a character into making choices that influence the game in some capacity. Some games have RPG elements like a skill tree, but that doesn't make them an RPG. For example: Spider-man 2 is NOT an RPG because no matter what you do, the game always plays out the same. If the player could choose to be Venom or Spider-man and make decisions with a good, bad, or neutral result, then it would be an RPG.

So that would also make Pokémon not an RPG?

Based on this an RPG has a flavor of customization where the story can change depending on your actions.

No because you can pick and choose which pokemon you want, what moves they learn, if they evolve or not. Decisions don't necessarily need to be story driven. 

Last edited by smroadkill15 - on 20 February 2024

smroadkill15 said:
Shtinamin_ said:

So that would also make Pokémon not an RPG?

Based on this an RPG has a flavor of customization where the story can change depending on your actions.

No because you can pick and choose which pokemon you want, what moves they learn, if they evolve or not. Decisions don't necessarily need to be story based. 

Ok so the ability to make playable distinctions can give it the ability to be called an RPG?



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

Shtinamin_ said:
smroadkill15 said:

No because you can pick and choose which pokemon you want, what moves they learn, if they evolve or not. Decisions don't necessarily need to be story based. 

Ok so the ability to make playable distinctions can give it the ability to be called an RPG?

Yes for instance picking which party of characters to use and when to use them. 



Why are JPRGs called JRPGs?

Marketing.

Seriously, though, there are differences between what W/C/RPGs try to do and what JPRGs try to do.

For the most of their existence, western made RPGs tried to emulate TTRPGs, which means you create your character, you make character progression choices, at least partially (since, unlike something like RuneQuest or GURPS, even D&D never gave you completely free character progression, given that some things are hardcoded in class/level progression), your character acts toward the world in a matter that tries to emulate RL (AKA "everything goes", so everything can be tried), and world reacts back as close as possible to RL, which translates to any problem can be tackled from different angles, with different short/long term consequences, both for character and world.

Of course, the amount of western made RPGs that actually pull this off is 0, but that is, more or less, a theoretical ideal. In practice, they are orders of magnitude more constrained by medium, since you can't code or predict everything, budgets, no matter how big they are, are limited, and there is no GM to improvise and adjust on the fly all the wheels that are in motion, so even most lauded western made RPGs, which check a lot of those boxes, are far cry from that ideal.

Now, my knowledge of JRPGs is very limited, but from what I observed, they tend to be focused on telling (fairly) preset story with (mostly) preset characters. In TTRPGs this often falls under "railroading" or, in extreme cases, "failed novelist GM" approach. Not saying all JPRGs are like this, just like there are quite a few western made RPGs that are more akin to this (and thus pretty much fail at being true to RPG core principles), but JRPGs tend to generally be way more constrained. Which is quite odd, given that JPRGs began as a mix of RPGs and visual novels, and from what I've heard (not really got into it yet thoroughly), there are plenty of visual novels that are very open-ended and have branching stories.

This is a very fun video from one of the most recognizable people in TTRPG scene these days, Matt Collvile (who worked in both tabletop and VG industry, started a YT series "Running the game" some 7-8 years ago to give advice to folks who want to be GMs, and whose MCDM productions garnered around $10 millions combined in crowdfunded projects), on The Sandbox vs The Railroad.

Another one, discussing Railroadng, Agency and Choices (more to the point and with better distinctions and advices)