You probably can't ban for-profit universities. That's probably a slippery slope of what you consider a university. You can probably do some other things, require for profit universities to specify that they're not accredited.
Bernie Sanders was pushing various public education reforms long before Biden was pushing for Student loan forgiveness. Student loan forgiveness isn't the bar. It's just a quick band aid. That doesn't mean band aids are bad or have no purpose.
Biggerboat1 said:
1) I think it's relevant when someone who is taking a position against loan forgiveness, but for reform to the system that would benefit people going forward, is being labelled as selfish. I personally don't have a strong position on the loan forgiveness proposal as I don't know enough about the details. I did try to have a look but got a bit lost in the language being used in the particular articles I started to read...
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I'm not even particularly bothered by someone's positions. You can be against loan forgiveness without being selfish. If your argument is that it causes other problems, I'm okay with that. That's not necessarily selfish.
If your argument is "i don't want to help people, that would cost me money." That is selfish. Even the notion of "I turned out fine, why should we help anyone else" is fairly selfish mentality.
I will say though, that selfishness isn't inherently a negative. I selfishly want to live in a good world. I want my kids and their kids to be in good shape.
But I think it's problematic to be against something that would help people on the basis of cost, when that cost is pretty much hypothetical. We're not likely to pay off the federal debt any time soon.
Biggerboat1 said:
You can apply that principle to a whole host of situations people find themselves in. Should 17/18/19 YOs be forgiven for all the financial mistakes they've made? All debt forgiven across the board? All let out of prison for crimes they've committed? Should they be compensated for choosing the wrong careers, bad purchases, bad investments?
The human brain doesn't fully mature until it's mid-twenties, so should the above be extended to those individuals too?
Everybody will have a different opinion on these & other similar scenarios, some will say yes to all, some no, but the vast majority will fall somewhere in-between, to varying degrees.
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My bar for these things is "does it help society?"
Should people be let out of prison for crimes they've committed? That depends. What position are they in? Are they rehabilitated? Are they crazed axe murderers? Are they in there for nonviolent crimes?
The point of all of this is not "people under the age of 24 or whatever should be free of whatever consequences of their actions." The point is not some blanket get of jail free card.
The point is "does this actually make the world a better place?" I would argue that keeping a 14 year old crazed axe murderer, who shows no remorse, in prison, makes the world a better place.
Do student loans make the world a better place? If not, we should do something about that. Maybe that means decreasing interest rates, or wiping out the interest accrued altogether. Maybe it means changing how we pay those things back. Maybe it means wiping it outright. I'm good with pretty much any idea that isn't "we shouldn't make the world a better place, because it sucked for me and I got out of it."
Does it make the world a better place to punish a 19 year old mom, who started college, got pregnant and got stuck in a bad job because of those circumstances? I don't think that helps anyone.
Biggerboat1 said:
My main point is that I find it an ever-more common position for people on the left (where I'd broadly place my views incidentally) to say that whoever sits to the right of their particular views is by definition a bad person/selfish/greedy etc. This mentality will only derail the conversation into ad homs & honestly, who has ever changed their outlook & been won over by being told that effectively, they're a piece of shit? Shaming isn't gonna win hearts & minds.
This approach is also counterproductive to the person engaging in it as there will almost always be someone with positions to the left of theirs, who can then turn the tables & define them as a POS.
I fear that more and more people are being pushed to the right, when in actuality their positions start off in a more moderate place, but they're just tired of being talked down to and scolded.
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This is not something that is exclusive to the left.
Right wingers have on multiple occasions basically made it illegal to be left wing.
Most people think of themselves as being morally upright, and frequently think that people who disagree with them must be immoral.
Pro-choice people are baby killers, don't you know?
They're communists/socialists/liberals coming for your guns, your freedom, your knives, your religion, your cars, etc.
Or recently "no one wants to work anymore"
Maybe young people today are left wing, because right wingers villainize them?
Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 14 April 2024