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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel-Hamas war, Gaza genocide

SvennoJ on 01 May 2024

Students march in support of Palestine at Emory University

Video posted by local US media shows the beginnings of a protest on the campus of Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. Last week, local police were accused of excessive force when they broke up a demonstration on Emory’s campus.

Protests in support of Palestine have spread across US campuses, and even abroad in places such as Beirut and Paris.





Classes go remote amid multiple arrests, suspensions at Tulane University

Tulane University in New Orleans, Louisiana, says that some classes scheduled in particular buildings will be “conducted remotely” due to protests on campus.

The university issued a statement that said: “Six arrests have been made, and seven suspensions, with another one pending, have been issued to students who have participated in this unlawful demonstration.”

The university added that it was “looking into reports of university employees participating in the demonstration”.

More than a dozen arrests at Tulane University

Tulane University Police Department in New Orleans, Louisiana, says that at least 14 protesters, including two Tulane students, have been arrested.

“These arrests are in addition to the six individuals, including one student, who were arrested on Monday. Monday’s offences include trespassing, resisting arrest and battery on an officer,” the department said in a statement.

It added that seven students had been suspended and that they were “actively looking into reports of university employees participating in this unlawful demonstration”.


Pro-Palestine protesters arrested at Arizona campuses

US police at two campuses in Arizona have cleared out encampments and arrested pro-Palestinian protesters, The AP reports.

Several people were arrested by police in riot gear at the University of Arizona in Tucson after President Robert Robbins directed school officials to “immediately enforce campus use policies”.

Additionally, about 20 people were arrested at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff on trespassing charges. Police dismantled a small fence made of chicken wire, as well as nearly two dozen tents.

At least a dozen other people were arrested at the University of Wisconsin in Madison as police removed tents erected by protesters.

Police pushed into the protesters with shields Wednesday morning, resulting in a scrum. Protesters chanted, “Students hold your ground”, and “Long live Palestine.”

Police have removed all but one of the tents that protesters erected. The protesters’ tents and belongings were loaded into a dump truck.


Police use tear gas on antiwar protesters at Florida university

US police have fired tear gas at protesters who had set up a camp at the University of South Florida to condemn Israel’s war on Gaza.



More than a dozen protesters taken into custody at University of South Florida

University of South Florida (USF) police say that 10 individuals have been taken into custody following protests on campus.

It said that on Tuesday approximately 75-100 protesters, including some students and individuals not affiliated with the university, arrived on campus with several items, including wood shields, umbrellas, and tents.

The police say that it was “determined that the protest was no longer peaceful, and participants must leave the area”. After participants “refused to comply” with instructions to disperse from the event, fourteen individuals were taken into custody.

The police department reported that one of the individuals was carrying a concealed firearm.


Chaotic scenes at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

Although it seems very calm now, we’ve been in this situation before, and it can change just like that.

At 6am (10:00 GMT) on Tuesday, the police moved into an area where several protesters had spent several days camping out.

The university had sort of been tolerating them, but had been trying to get them to leave. The police showed up and said you’ve got to go; you’ve got half an hour. They then detained 36 people. Thirty were cited for trespassing and released, and six were arrested on misdemeanours and taken to the courthouse to be booked.

But that was by no means the end of the matter. Come 12 noon (16:00 GMT), they were back, and there were quite ugly scenes.

There were protesters supporting Palestinians. There were counterprotesters here. The police were deployed. We understand that at one point, there were officers from six different police departments, plus the sheriff.

There was pepper spray, and there was tear gas. Batons were being used, and at one point, the pro-Palestinian protesters took the US flag down. They replaced it with a Palestinian flag, which led to the chancellor turning up with police taking down the Palestinian flag and reinstating the American flag.




Police clear encampment at University of Wisconsin

At least 12 people have been arrested when police moved in to clear the encampment at the campus in Madison, Wisconsin, according to Wisconsin Public Radio.

That came two days after the encampment was set up. University administrators said camping is banned on campus. Protest organisers promised to renew the demonstration after the tents were cleared.




Encamp, divest and keep your eyes on Gaza

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/4/30/encamp-divest-and-keep-your-eyes-on-gaza

On April 22, students set up an encampment at the University of Michigan to demand the university’s complete and total divestment from Israel.

They thus joined dozens of other universities across the United States in standing up in solidarity with the Palestinian people who are facing genocide at the hands of the Israeli army. Israeli forces have killed more than 34,500 Palestinians, including 14,500 children, in Gaza and nearly 490, including 124 children, in the occupied West Bank.

What I have seen at Michigan as a member of the encampment is inspiring.

The protest has been joined by students of various ethnic and religious backgrounds, including Palestinians and Jews, people of Arab and South Asian descent and others. Many community members are spending time in and around the camp: to protect it, distribute food, and learn.



Around the Network
SvennoJ on 01 May 2024

Los Angeles University UCLA

Pro-Palestine UCLA protesters stood their ground despite assault by counter-protesters

What we’ve seen is a really shocking and ugly scene of violence as what appears to be hundreds of pro-Israel attackers have assaulted the encampment of the pro-Palestinian student protesters.

The attackers were hurling missiles, fireworks, stones, even scooters – anything that they could get their hands on to throw inside the camp in an attempt to, one presumes, force student protesters to leave the area.

Police did not show up for a long time. The number of injured is difficult to say at this hour, although we’ve seen reports on social media saying that some people have been led away with injuries.

The encampment is still there, and the student protesters, despite this attack, have stood their ground. They haven’t fled.

This has happened before, although on a smaller scale; for example, over the weekend, particularly on Sunday night, the camp was attacked in a similar fashion.

LAPD on UCLA campus

Los Angeles police say they have deployed officers at the UCLA campus to restore order after the clashes that broke out on its grounds.

“At the request of UCLA, due to multiple acts of violence within the large encampment on their campus, the LAPD is responding to assist UCLA PD, and other law enforcement agencies, to restore order and maintain public safety,” LA police said in a post on social platform X.

Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass said in a post on X that “the violence unfolding this evening at UCLA is absolutely abhorrent and inexcusable”.


UCLA pro-Palestine protesters create makeshift barricades, shields

We have spoken to Joey Scott, an investigative journalist in Los Angeles, about how the pro-Palestine protesters at UCLA are protecting themselves following the attack by masked counter-protesters.

He said the protesters have re-commandeered the metal fencing that the counter-protesters threw at them during the attack, and have used it to re-enforce the barricades.

Many are also carrying umbrellas and have created “makeshift shields to protect themselves”, Scott told Al Jazeera.

He said the protesters had organised themselves in a very “defensive posture” at the moment, considering the counter-protesters had been “wielding the violence”.


The encampment on the UCLA campus


Attack on pro-Palestinian protesters at UCLA: Here’s what to know

  • Hundreds of seemingly pro-Israel attackers assaulted an encampment of pro-Palestinian student protesters at UCLA.
  • The attackers hurled projectiles at the encampment as they tried to break through makeshift barricades.
  • Violent clashes ensued between the protesters and the counter-protesters, many of whom were masked.
  • Television footage showed people clashing with sticks and tearing down metal barricades. Others were seen launching fireworks or hurling objects at each other in the dark – lit up with laser pointers and bright flashlights.
  • Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass said police had arrived on campus, calling the violence “absolutely abhorrent and inexcusable”.


Pro-Palestine UCLA campus attacked by pro-Israel counter-protesters


Counter-protesters attempt to move a barricade at an encampment on the campus of UCLA in Los Angeles, California, US, on May 1


A pro-Palestinian protester is attacked by counter-protesters at the UCLA campus


Counter-protesters remove barricades at the pro-Palestinian encampment


Protesters in support of Palestinians in Gaza help one another rinse their eyes

Israel supporters attack anti-war protesters at UCLA university in US

 

Sticks, bottles thrown at pro-Palestine protesters at UCLA

Sergio Olmos, an investigative journalist reporting from the UCLA campus, arrived on the scene just after midnight (about 07:00 GMT).

He told Al Jazeera that he witnessed several hundred counterprotesters trying to tear down walls set up by the pro-Palestine encampment. He described counterprotesters throwing projectiles at the encampment, trying to hit the pro-Palestine protesters with sticks and in some cases throwing glass bottles.

He also reported a number of minor injuries and significant amounts of pepper spray used. Olmos said it remained unclear if the counterprotestors “have a unified message other than they are opposing the Palestinian demonstration”.


Violence at UCLA was not ‘mutual combat’

Olmos, the investigative journalist reporting from the UCLA campus, adds that it had been the counterprotesters who had instigated the violence against the pro-Palestine protest encampment.

“It wasn’t like they were both coming out to brawl. It wasn’t mutual combat,” he said.

While the pro-Palestine protesters were in their encampment, the counterprotesters came out and “started trying to take down the camp and engage in brawls” with some of them setting off fireworks, Olmos said.

“This group of counterprotesters were really pushing for a fight,” he said.

He added that police arrived after more than an hour and “stood maybe a few hundred feet away, just watching for an hour”.

“The brawl went on for about two hours without any police intervention. Once the police decided to move in, the counterprotesters left,” Olmos said.

He added that police are trying to clear the area outside the protest encampment and there have been no large-scale arrests on either side.


UCLA would ‘rather see us dead than divest’: Palestine solidarity camp

The People’s City Council, a collective of activist organizations, has published a statement on behalf of the UCLA Palestine solidarity camp. It said the encampment was attacked with gas canisters, pepper spray, fireworks and bricks overnight.

According to the statement, external security hired by the university watched and filmed the attack while law enforcement did not intervene.



‘UCLA attack went on for two hours’

We’ve spoken to Sean Beckner-Carmitchel, a videographer and a writer, who witnessed the attack by counterprotesters on the pro-Palestinian activists.

Here’s his account: “Late at night, a group of about 100 counter-protesters to the Gaza solidarity encampent at the University of California Los Angeles began to throw fireworks, began to throw sticks.

“I saw a few very large objects being thrown at the camp. They began to yell things in support of Israel, but I also heard racial epithets towards Black people, I heard quite a bit of language which implies sexual violence, as well as threats of violence.

“It went on for about two hours; there was no response from the UCLA police nor there was any response from the Los Angeles police department of the California Highway Patrol.

“After about two hours, they did arrive and counter-protesters eventually left.”

Private security at UCLA ‘retreated’ amid violence: Expert

Brian Levin, the founder of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism and professor emeritus at California State University, has spoken to Al Jazeera about the violent scenes at UCLA overnight.

He said private security hired by the university was supposed to keep apart the two groups of protesters.

However, once the pro-Israel counterprotesters attacked the pro-Palestinian encampment, the security detail “retreated”, he said, adding, “They were overwhelmed. There was anarchy for hours, and that’s terrible.”



SvennoJ on 01 May 2024

WHO says trying to restore partial functionality at Gaza’s Nasser Hospital

The World Health Organization (WHO) says it is working with its partners to restore partial functionality to the Nasser Hospital in southern Gaza weeks after it was devastated by another Israeli military ground assault.

“The plan here is not to open the hospital as a whole, like the way it was before, but there is a minimum package of services that we expect at a secondary health care facility at this level,” said Husna Daffalla, a WHO coordinator.

She said that includes the maternity ward, operating theatres, the emergency department, paediatrics, an intensive care unit, and a newborn unit.

Hundreds of bodies were found in mass graves at the Nasser Hospital last month, and the International Criminal Court (ICC) is investigating.

Palestinian Red Crescent to establish field hospital with Kuwaiti, Egyptian help

The Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) says it has received trucks loaded with medical devices and equipment belonging to the Kuwaiti Red Crescent via the Rafah border crossing in southern Gaza.

The aim, it says, is to establish a field hospital in the Mawasi area near Khan Younis in southern Gaza to provide medical services to “hundreds of thousands of displaced Palestinians”.

As the Israeli military continues its attacks on the southern parts of the enclave and also plans to invade Rafah from the ground, the PRCS is undertaking this project with help from Kuwaiti and Egyptian counterparts.





Israel says ‘anti-Semitic’ Colombian president can’t change relations

The Israeli foreign minister says the “hate-filled and anti-Semitic” Colombian President Gustavo Petro cannot change bilateral relations that he claims “have always been warm”.

Israel Katz said in a post on X that the Colombian president – who announced hours earlier that the South American nation will sever diplomatic relations with Israel – is rewarding Hamas.

He said Israel will “continue to protect its citizens fearlessly” despite Colombia siding with “the most despicable monsters known to humanity”.

The Israeli military has killed more than 34,500 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, most of them women and children.


Israeli Foreign Minister Israel Katz says Colombia’s decision to cut political ties is a reward for Hamas



US House passes ‘anti-Semitism’ bill that targets Israel criticism

The US House of Representatives has overwhelmingly passed a bill that broadens the definition of “anti-Semitism” in order to include the “targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity”.

The proposal was passed 320-91, and aims to codify a definition of anti-Semitism offered by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance in the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

It will now have to be also approved by the Senate, but many US politicians – especially Republicans – have backed it, as tens of thousands of students stage pro-Palestinian demonstrations across the country.

Democratic and Jewish member of Congress Sara Jacobs, who voted against the legislation, said she has faced anti-Semitism all her life, “but I do not believe that anti-Zionism is inherently anti-Semitism”.

She said she rejected the legislation “because it fails to effectively address the very real rise of anti-Semitism, all while defunding colleges and universities across the country and punishing many, if not all, of the non-violent protesters speaking out against the Israeli military’s conduct”.





SvennoJ on 01 May 2024

UNICEF chief: Gaza war ‘taking unimaginable toll on children’

Catherine Russell, the head of the UN’s fund for supporting children (UNICEF), says the war on Gaza must end and has warned of further devastation for Palestinian children as Israel promises an invasion of Rafah.

“Over 200 days of war have already killed or maimed tens of thousands of children in Gaza. For hundreds of thousands of children in the border city of Rafah, there is added fear of an escalated military operation that would bring catastrophe on top of catastrophe for children,” she said in a video message.

“Nearly all of the some 600,000 children now crammed into Rafah are either injured, sick, malnourished, traumatised or living with disabilities.”

Palestinian children thank US students for demonstrations

Palestinian children have been recording videos of themselves thanking US students for demonstrations calling for an end to the devastating war on Gaza.

“We, the people of Gaza, are very happy when we see American students standing with us,” a young Palestinian student says in this video shared by the Palestine Action protest network.

The students can be seen acknowledging and thanking those taking part in major protests across some of the top universities in the US and elsewhere, including UCLA, Emory, and George Washington University.




New Yorkers rally in support of Palestine on May Day

A large crowd gathered today at New York City’s Foley Square for a protest entitled “Student and Workers Unite for Palestine”.

Posts from protest organisers say that this rally is being held in sympathy not only with Palestinians in Gaza, as they continue to endure Israel’s ongoing military campaign, but also with students on US university campuses, who are currently facing harsh police crackdowns as they demand their institutions divest from business ties with Israel.



SvennoJ on 01 May 2024

This is going nowhere until the war on Gaza ends

Hezbollah claimed four attacks on Israeli positions today

The armed Lebanese group says in its end-of-day report of border fighting with Israel that it launched four attacks on Wednesday.

Hezbollah said in order to retaliate against Israeli strikes on villages in southern Lebanon, it targeted the Metulla settlement, while also using rockets and missiles to target the hills of Kfar Chouba.

The armed group also said it monitored a deployment of Israeli soldiers in the vicinity of the Pranit barracks and used rockets and artillery shells to target them.

Lastly, it claimed an attack on the Shtoula settlement, achieving a direct hit, using guided missiles.

Hezbollah has been increasingly using rocket volleys and guided missiles to target Israeli positions in border fighting that has been ongoing since October 8, a day after the start of the Gaza war.

Israeli military claims attacks on Hezbollah positions

The Israeli military says its fighter jets launched strikes on two buildings used by Hezbollah in southern Lebanon’s Ayta al-Shaab and Marwahin a few hours ago.

It said in a short statement that its forces had also targeted another site belonging to the armed Lebanese group in Tayr Harfa.

The Israeli military said this came after two antitank guided missiles were launched by Hezbollah earlier on Wednesday at homes in the Israeli town of Shtola, attacks which inflicted no casualties. The military said it “attacked the source of the fire”.



Around the Network
SvennoJ on 01 May 2024

Guillermo got mad

US official gets angry, makes contradictions on Israel’s human rights violations | Janta Ka Reporter


Violence AGAINST Anti-War Student Protesters Escalates Across The US




Pro-Israel THUGS Attack Student Protesters - While Cops Rampage In New York


 

Riot Cops & Pro-Israel Mobs: The Crackdown On US College Palestine Protests



Novarro also goes into the hypocrisy of the USA over the ICC, fine when it's investigating Ukraine or Sudan, but hands off Israel.

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 01 May 2024

SvennoJ on 01 May 2024

Israeli demonstrators attack flour shipment bound for Gaza

Israeli demonstrators have attacked an aid convoy destined for Gaza, destroying bags of flour as the shipment crossed from Jordan to the occupied West Bank.

Doctors from Islamic medical association document trip to Gaza

A team of doctors from the Islamic Medical Association of North America have documented their latest trip to Gaza. They describe the severe injuries they had to treat and the scale of destruction around them.

“Everywhere I saw destruction in Khan Younis, not a single building was standing, be it hospitals or schools,” said Dr Ismail Mehr, an anaesthesiologist with the group.




US lawmakers accused of equating criticism of Israel with antisemitism

The Council on American–Islamic Relations (CAIR) has blasted US lawmakers who voted overwhelmingly to approve a bill that broadens the definition of anti-Semitism in the US.


The proposal, which aims to codify a new definition of anti-Semitism, was passed 320-91 and will now have to be also approved by the Senate. Critics fear the new definition – which is taken from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance – will be used to label any criticism of Israel in the US as anti-Semitic.

“Tonight we condemned members of the US House of Representatives who voted to approve a one-sided and dishonest proposal about campus antisemitism that ignored anti-Palestinian racism and conflates criticism of Israel with antisemitism,” CAIR said in a post on social media.

“The push to adopt this act was motivated by an anti-Palestinian bias aimed at stifling young student voices advocating for Palestinian human rights, especially following Israel’s genocidal invasion of Gaza,” CAIR’s Robert S. McCaw said in a statement.



SvennoJ on 01 May 2024

They're getting the Palestinian experience of the West Bank...

Students protesters at UCLA don’t feel protected by police: Report

The Associated Press (AP) news agency reports that Muslim organisations in the US and students at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) have blasted university officials and police for failing to intervene and protect them from pro-Israeli attackers.

Rebecca Husaini, chief of staff for the Muslim Public Affairs Council in the US, said protesting students at UCLA do not feel protected by the police following the attacks on Tuesday night and into Wednesday morning.

“The community needs to feel the police are protecting them, not enabling others to harm them,” Husaini said after a night of violence on Wednesday during which students at a peaceful pro-Palestinian encampment on the Los Angeles campus were verbally harassed, pepper sprayed and beaten by pro-Israeli attackers.

Several students who spoke to AP said they had to rely on each other, not the police, for protection as they were attacked, and that many in the pro-Palestinian encampment remained peaceful and did not engage with the attackers.



‘Intense criticism’ of UCLA administration following attack on peaceful Gaza encampment

We are inside the University of California, Los Angeles, and behind me, the Gaza solidarity encampment, that was set up by student protesters, they have been spending some time today reinforcing the barrier that keeps them from being attacked by the forces that were so violent yesterday and overnight.

The fallout has been intense.

There is a lot of criticism of the administration of this university, and a lot of criticism and questioning about why the police weren’t here when the pro-Zionist, pro-Israel mob approached and overwhelmed the security guards that were in place, threw aside all the barriers that were in place, and tried to break into the camp.

They used fireworks, irritant chemical sprays, poles made of metal and sticks made of wood – as well as fists and feet – and more than 100 students were injured, according to protest organisers, some of whom were admitted to hospital.

The faculty at this university is up in arms.

More than 200 of them have signed on to a letter harshly criticising the administration and making a series of demands, including that the police not be unleashed on the student encampment and that no student be disciplined for exercising their right to free speech.

And saying if that is not adhered to by the administration, the faculty will consider other measures including work stoppages.


Activists say UCLA Palestine encampment assault followed days of harassment

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/2/activists-say-ucla-palestine-encampment-assault-followed-days-of-harassment

Classes at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) were cancelled on Wednesday following attacks on a Gaza solidarity encampment by pro-Israeli supporters the previous night.

UCLA’s administration released a statement condemning the “horrific acts of violence” against the encampment, which was erected in protest at Israel’s war on the Palestinian territory where at least 34,568 people have been killed and 77,765 wounded in Israeli attacks since October 7.

Anna, a spokesperson for the UCLA encampment, told Al Jazeera that dozens of pro-Palestine protesters were injured or pepper-sprayed in the attack, which lasted from late Tuesday night into the early hours of Wednesday morning.

Anna added that the attack was carried out partly under the gaze of police, who only stepped in several hours after the violence began.


A pro-Palestinian protester, centre on the ground, is beaten by a group of pro-Israeli attackers on the campus of the University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) on May 1


Questions raised over why police response to attacks on UCLA students ‘took hours’

This group of people from outside the campus community are not students … who were waving Israeli flags, and shouting slogans and insults, have been here for days and they have attempted to break into the camp, and they have used violence.

So it is very puzzling as to why there were no police here at the moment when the riot started. Even more puzzling as to why it took hours for the police to arrive.

This is Los Angeles. This is not some remote location out in the country.

There are Los Angeles Police Department vehicles and policemen, as well as the California Highway Patrol, at the disposal of the mayor and the governor to respond in very quick order to these types of disturbances.

It is perhaps a matter that will be investigated in the future. But as for now, there are police on the campus. There are policemen scattered about this lawn … They have riot batons and helmets.

So there is the hope that this outburst, this spasm of violence will not repeat itself once darkness falls. But the students inside the encampment are taking no chances. They are preparing to defend themselves, and they say they are not going anywhere.



SvennoJ on 01 May 2024

US police will beat down peaceful protests though

Students say Columbia University campus a ‘war zone’ due to police operation

We’re here outside the [City University of New York] and you can see there’s about three, four or 500 people. Most of them are students that have come here to denounce what happened on Tuesday evening at the Columbia University campus and here, when around 300 students were detained by the police.

This is what many universities in New York City and across the United States look like with the presence of the police.

Universities have requested that the police stay after many of the students that were carrying out encampments inside of the universities were evicted because they’re afraid of people trying to go in again.

We’ve been listening to students saying that Columbia University on Tuesday evening became a war zone. They said that some students were injured. They’re saying they’re not being allowed to protest to shed light on what’s happening in Gaza.

At least 20 protesters arrested at University of Texas, Dallas


At least 20 pro-Palestine protesters have been arrested from a Gaza solidarity encampment on the University of Texas at Dallas (UTD) campus, according to local police.

Several dozen people set up tents at UTD’s Chess Plaza on Wednesday morning, with one sign saying “Welcome to Gaza Liberation Plaza”.



Police were seen dismantling the encampment and arresting protesters for criminal trespass on Wednesday afternoon. It’s unclear how many of the protesters are students at the university.



Jaicee on 02 May 2024
SvennoJ said:

There is a lot of that, however the mainstream media chooses to focus on conflict :/

There are also many Palestinians living in Israel (in fear nowadays sadly) as well as Arabs and other nationalities. They can all live together, however it's the extremists (on both sides) that have kept the conflict and current escalation going.

On college campuses kids have also prayed together, both Muslim and Jewish prayers, eat together and generally have peaceful exchanges of ideas. But there are always trouble makers which the media focuses on. Part of those troublemakers are the universities themselves sending state troopers in, provoking violence.


Anti-Zionism is also not anti-Judaism. Zionism has been hijacked by ultra right hardliners like Ben-Gvir, now part of the war cabinet, living in an illegal settlement in the West Bank. So yes, the protests are anti Zionist anti current ultra right government of Israel. They are not anti Israel. At least I haven't heard anywhere that Israel should be disbanded and the 7.2 million Jews living there should pack up and leave. There aren't even many voices saying all the illegal settlements should be disbanded, but some reparations do have to be done for a 2-state solution.

The 2-state solution is the most heard, an intermediary phase to hopefully a union in the future.


Anti-Zionist attitudes are deserved as the way the Israeli government acts in the name of Zionism is the root cause of what's happening in Israel/Palestine. Yet anti-Zionist attitudes do not diminish respect for the Jewish identity. Zionism is just a recent experiment, which started with good intentions, yet has been hijacked by ultra nationalist and fascist movements.

https://www.huckmag.com/article/zionism-is-not-judaism-myths-about-israel

However Zionists do try to conflate Judaism with Zionism calling Jews that denounce Zionism self-hating Jews.

Also not all Jews in Israel are Zionists.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/


Another thing to note is that the fear of Islam, Muslims, Arabs in general is what has been keeping people inline since the fall of the Soviet Union. The Islam scare is the new Red scare. And that needs to be maintained for the powerful elite to continue to get away what ever they want. Hence so much push back against any empathy towards Palestinians...

There's a lot to respond to here, but the bottom line is that, rather than simply distancing yourself from straight-up anti-Israel politics, you seem to be creatively reimagining the definition of Zionism so you don't have to, and that says a lot to me.

Here you have reimagined "Zionism" as a term that means support for the particular government of Benjamin Netanyahu. That is not how proponents define it. Like when a Jewish student's path to class is blocked by protesters and they ask him or her if they're a "Zionist" before permitting passage, the Jewish student will not answer that question according to your definition of the term, they'll answer it according to the Anti-Defamation League's definition, as some variation or other thereon is embraced by basically every Jewish person in Israel regardless of their position on the left-right spectrum (including the anti-occupation peace activists) and by many living outside Israel as well.

Anti-Zionism is not a factor in Israeli Jewish politics. That position, which is understood as opposition to the existence of Israel as a Jewish state, has no appreciable uptake there amongst the Jewish population and is thus what I would consider an unserious position. Even the left wing newspapers in Israel like Haaretz do not respect anti-Zionist attitudes. That is because, as simply yet succinctly put by Joshua Leifer of Dissent magazine, Zionism is commonly understood by Jewish people to simply mean "support for the political self-determination of, and a sovereign state for, the Jewish people". It does not mean support for the current war, Netanyahu, Ben-Givr, or the settling by Jews of land seized by Israel in 1967. It means recognizing that a nation called Israel has the right to exist as a majority-Jewish country. The 50,000 or so Israelis you see protesting the Netanyahu government every weekend these days demanding that the government reach a deal for the release of hostages at pretty much any price (including an immediate conclusion to the war) perfectly illustrates this spectrum of opinion.

Anti-Zionist token Jews who are willing to debase themselves enough to chant along with slogans like "Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" and applaud and cheer speakers defending "the heroic actions of October the 7th", by contrast, are not taken seriously by many Jewish people anywhere. Those are indeed objectively self-hating Jews, sorry, and I say that as an atheist and fellow opponent of this war myself.

I believe that we are fundamentally on the same side of the Israeli-Palestinian question in opposing this war and believing in a two-state solution recognizing both a nation of Israel and a nation of Palestine. I feel though that you're one more prone to getting wrapped up in the general aura of protests to the point that you can't think critically about the sum of their content, to which end you are here reflexively ignoring and justifying their more pernicious aspects in disingenuous ways. Another obvious example: in the OP, you layout your idea of the timeline of events leading up to this moment in Israeli-Palestinian relations. It's tough not to notice the partisan skew of the telling, such as the omission of a minor little event known as the Holocaust from your timeline. Considering that the Holocaust was the event that first popularized Zionism among Jewish people, one might've thought it worth mentioning. Glaring omissions like that don't occur by accident.

I'm trying not use the yes sometimes-overused term "anti-Semitism" here and I hope this doesn't come off as inappropriate tone policing in a context of slaughter and famine, but I can't help feeling like your general take on events, which is practically the only one represented on this thread, is not very sensitive to the typical perspectives and experience of Jewish people.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 02 May 2024