By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Does Nintendo suck at making "Core gamer" consoles?

Soundwave said:

Microsoft entering the industry was really the problem for Nintendo.

If it was just Sony and Nintendo left post-Sega, Nintendo could have comfortably sold as a no.2 home console for a while, but Microsoft coming in just over crowded the market.

There's really never been a time when three consoles trying to basically do the same thing had much success. The Super NES and Genesis did, but the Turbo Grafx 16 found no market in the West, in Japan, the Super NES and PC Engine did alright but Mega Drive (Genesis) lagged behind. With the Playstation and N64 the Saturn fizzled out in the no.3 spot. 

If there was no XBox, I don't think the GameCube is some massive success but it probably does considerably better just because it's the only alternative and as such it's strengths (better graphics than PS2, easier to program for, Resident Evil exclusivity, exclusive MGS remake, Tales RPG, etc. etc.) would stand out more. I think it could have sold 40-45 million units or so, not far off from the Super NES, and then they probably could've made significant inroads against the PS3 at $600.

Really in a way it's kind of too bad that Microsoft couldn't just work together with Nintendo and stay out of the hardware business but make software like Halo and Forza for Nintendo in exchange for Nintendo using Windows OS. That was the whole reason for them coming into the industry, they were scared Sony would have a bunch of devices that didn't have Windows on it, not so much that they cared really about the game business itself. But instead you have a situation where the no.2/3 spot was essentially split and really the only one that was a good thing for was Sony. 

If there was no Xbox people would've just stuck to the PS2 and ignore the GameCube. The GC selling twice as much more is a huge exaggeration. People were getting an Xbox cause of Halo, great online and the best performance on Multiplats games. GameCube wasn't offering any of that, didn't introduce any major FPS, online was non-existent, and the GC still missed out on many multiplats the Xbox was getting. Even if Multiplats ran at better performance on GC, the leap between PS2 & GC was much smaller than the gap between PS2 & Xbox in graphics that a GC multiplat running slightly better than PS2 wouldn't mean much. I'm sure most people who brought an Xbox wouldn't bother getting a GC even if Xbox never existed cause GC didn't offer anything they were looking for. The GC selling 40-45M lifetime without Xbox is pretty much implying that nearly every single potential Xbox owner would've purchased a GC, which is unreasonable.

Same goes for the generation before, if Sega didn't exist, it's unlikely Nintendo would sell much more units with the N64. People brought the Saturn mainly for arcade fighter ports and RPGs in Japan, which is what the N64 lacked heavily and those players likely wouldn't have switched towards a system with very few of the generes. They would've just stuck to the PS1, and even if somehow every Saturn owner became a N64 owner instead, the N64 would still be a only 42M, barely anything more than the 33M they sold and still very far from the PS1.



Around the Network
mZuzek said:
Chrkeller said:

I think they invented trivial marketing BS, nothing more.  Core existed well before the genesis.  

Core never existed. It's just an elitist gamerTM buzzword.

I do think core and casual exist.  I play games at least 5 days a week and done as such for decades.  My wife will play a game once a month.  



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

I really don't think it's that complicated. Core consoles are pc, Xbox and ps5. If you like ninetndo and don't love ninetndo games then yes it sucks as a traditional core gaming console. Because it's third party support is limited and hardware is extremely dated.



zeldaring said:

I really don't think it's that complicated. Core consoles are pc, Xbox and ps5. If you like ninetndo and don't love ninetndo games then yes it sucks as a traditional core gaming console. Because it's third party support is limited and hardware is extremely dated.

From that perspective a retro gamer playing on original hardware cannot be a core gamer because the hardware they play on is dated. There are over 4000 games available on the Switch, so I don't know how third party support is limited. Sure there are games not available on the Switch, but that is true for all platforms.



Tober said:
zeldaring said:

I really don't think it's that complicated. Core consoles are pc, Xbox and ps5. If you like ninetndo and don't love ninetndo games then yes it sucks as a traditional core gaming console. Because it's third party support is limited and hardware is extremely dated.

From that perspective a retro gamer playing on original hardware cannot be a core gamer because the hardware they play on is dated. There are over 4000 games available on the Switch, so I don't know how third party support is limited. Sure there are games not available on the Switch, but that is true for all platforms.

I didn't say it can't be a core console it can be but I wouldn't call it a good one for what the core gamer is looking for unless you love ninetndo games. ps5 and Xbox get almost every thirty party and third party support is very limited imo. Most of thr third party games that are must haves for me are not on Switch or are too much of a down grade.



Around the Network

AH SHIT I AM A CASUAL FOR PLAYING Mad Stalker ON MY PC ENGINE CD! It's so dated! Fuck I knew playing DoDonpachi White Label on my Switch made me casual! Fucking 3-frame delay to PS4's 2! Oh, the humanity!



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

I don't think core vs casual has anything to do with what games people play. More about how much they play. Switch is a great core console via zelda, Mario, metroid, fire emblem, etc.

The switch may lack AAA third party but it is the only console with exclusives. Xbox and ps5 are no different than a PC at this point.



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

zeldaring said:
Tober said:

From that perspective a retro gamer playing on original hardware cannot be a core gamer because the hardware they play on is dated. There are over 4000 games available on the Switch, so I don't know how third party support is limited. Sure there are games not available on the Switch, but that is true for all platforms.

I didn't say it can't be a core console it can be but I wouldn't call it a good one for what the core gamer is looking for unless you love ninetndo games. ps5 and Xbox get almost every thirty party and third party support is very limited imo. Most of thr third party games that are must haves for me are not on Switch or are too much of a down grade.

That is fair. It probably depends a lot on personal taste in games. Myself, I love metroidvania's and the Switch has a huge amount of choice for that type of game.



javi741 said:
Soundwave said:

Microsoft entering the industry was really the problem for Nintendo.

If it was just Sony and Nintendo left post-Sega, Nintendo could have comfortably sold as a no.2 home console for a while, but Microsoft coming in just over crowded the market.

There's really never been a time when three consoles trying to basically do the same thing had much success. The Super NES and Genesis did, but the Turbo Grafx 16 found no market in the West, in Japan, the Super NES and PC Engine did alright but Mega Drive (Genesis) lagged behind. With the Playstation and N64 the Saturn fizzled out in the no.3 spot. 

If there was no XBox, I don't think the GameCube is some massive success but it probably does considerably better just because it's the only alternative and as such it's strengths (better graphics than PS2, easier to program for, Resident Evil exclusivity, exclusive MGS remake, Tales RPG, etc. etc.) would stand out more. I think it could have sold 40-45 million units or so, not far off from the Super NES, and then they probably could've made significant inroads against the PS3 at $600.

Really in a way it's kind of too bad that Microsoft couldn't just work together with Nintendo and stay out of the hardware business but make software like Halo and Forza for Nintendo in exchange for Nintendo using Windows OS. That was the whole reason for them coming into the industry, they were scared Sony would have a bunch of devices that didn't have Windows on it, not so much that they cared really about the game business itself. But instead you have a situation where the no.2/3 spot was essentially split and really the only one that was a good thing for was Sony. 

If there was no Xbox people would've just stuck to the PS2 and ignore the GameCube. The GC selling twice as much more is a huge exaggeration. People were getting an Xbox cause of Halo, great online and the best performance on Multiplats games. GameCube wasn't offering any of that, didn't introduce any major FPS, online was non-existent, and the GC still missed out on many multiplats the Xbox was getting. Even if Multiplats ran at better performance on GC, the leap between PS2 & GC was much smaller than the gap between PS2 & Xbox in graphics that a GC multiplat running slightly better than PS2 wouldn't mean much. I'm sure most people who brought an Xbox wouldn't bother getting a GC even if Xbox never existed cause GC didn't offer anything they were looking for. The GC selling 40-45M lifetime without Xbox is pretty much implying that nearly every single potential Xbox owner would've purchased a GC, which is unreasonable.

Same goes for the generation before, if Sega didn't exist, it's unlikely Nintendo would sell much more units with the N64. People brought the Saturn mainly for arcade fighter ports and RPGs in Japan, which is what the N64 lacked heavily and those players likely wouldn't have switched towards a system with very few of the generes. They would've just stuck to the PS1, and even if somehow every Saturn owner became a N64 owner instead, the N64 would still be a only 42M, barely anything more than the 33M they sold and still very far from the PS1.

We'll never know, but I think the GameCube would have sold significant more if it was the default and only real alternative to the PS2. 

The GameCube did have some good aspects to it, it's just things like having better hardware and easier to program for than the PS2 ended up meaning nothing because well XBox also had those things going for it. 

The N64 still sold 33 million units by being basically the default no.2 (Saturn basically fizzled and was dead by spring 1997) with horrendous game droughts, that kind of proves my point actually, Nintendo was still able to hit a reasonably high number of units even with a very limited game library and the games were like $70-$80 in some cases (lol) compared to $40-$50 for Playstation. 

I think with no XBox, there are more PS2 gamers who would've purchased the GameCube as a secondary console, especially when it was $99-$129.99. Smash Bros, Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil 0, Mario Kart, Viewtiful Joe, Tales of Symphonia, etc. were good enough that they were worth a look, especially with the hardware being that cheap.  

They really needed to release Twilight Princess before Wind Waker though, that was a real kick in the nuts to the system, it badly needed a realistic Zelda early in its product cycle. The early 2000s was a bad time to say "hey you know what we should do? Go more cartoony and kid-centric with this" ... it was the complete opposite of where pop culture was at. What the Wind Waker team did was honestly fairly selfish, they let the company down badly because they wanted to chase their own creative fetishes, yes the game was good but they also could have made a realistic Zelda that was a very good game too. Miyamoto didn't like the style either, they had to trick him into going along with it by continuing to work on it behind his back. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 20 December 2023

Wind Waker is the best zelda game. I love the art style and I am so happy Nintendo had the balls to go for it. On cemu WWHD at 4k is stunning.



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED