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Forums - Nintendo - How Will be Switch 2 Performance Wise?

 

Switch 2 is out! How you classify?

Terribly outdated! 3 5.26%
 
Outdated 1 1.75%
 
Slightly outdated 14 24.56%
 
On point 31 54.39%
 
High tech! 7 12.28%
 
A mixed bag 1 1.75%
 
Total:57
HoloDust said:
Shaunodon said:

Probably good to be brought down to earth now. It's still a significant jump, but not enough that it could render games at PS4 quality and still upscale to 4k or PS4 Pro levels of visual fidelity.

Just with the comparison of cross-gen games running on PS4 and Switch 2, you can already see the improvements newer hardware architecture can create, similar to the improvements from WiiU to Switch.

The only games that will be able to take advantage of all next-gen features and have great image quality, will be Nintendo games, which is what we expected anyway.

I actually think it will be able to do just that - roughly taken, DLLS 4K Performance, which renders in 1080p and upscales to 4K, uses some 15-20% more than running in native 1080p.

I won't get my hopes up just yet. Want to see what the developers can do after they've had much longer with the dev kits first.



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Pemalite said:
haxxiy said:

You can just emulate all of DLSS's FP8/INT8 instructions on FP16/INT16, which every CPU/GPU supports. It's not any harder than emulating any other aspect of the hardware, it'll just come at a higher cost than native... as it is always the case.

480p to 1080p and 720p to 4K is waaay too expensive to be practical on Switch 2-level hardware. The precious milliseconds you need to do it and still run a game at 30 fps+ are simply not there. You're far more likely to see 720p to 1080/1152p or something.

It's not as simple as that.

When you halve the precision, you tend to double the amount of computations you can perform (Depending on hardware support. I.E. Rapid Packed Math)... And that means the reverse is true. - It's rare on GPU's where you halve the precision you retain the same level of output.
So in general... FP16 will be twice as slow as FP8.

So it is actually harder to emulate.

For the most part AMD and nVidia have supported low-precision INT/FP for 5+ years now and more recently started to adopt bfloat.

As for DLSS itself, it does consume rendering budget, it's not a free lunch.

dharh said:

Just to be clear. I am strictly talking about docked most performance. I don't think the Switch 2 can do PS5 level compute. Frankly, after listening to some people with more knowledge on this kind of stuff that likely docked mode is closer to PS4 to PS4 Pro compute with up-scaling to reach 4k.

The Switch 2 is more like a mobile Playstation 4, but with extra tricks up it sleeve.

Just like how the Switch 1 was more like a mobile Xbox 360 with extra tricks up it sleeve.

It allows it to punch above it's perceived paper-specifications, but it's weighted in those classes of hardware.

4k upscaling is going to be a waste truth be told, remember it likely only has a tiny 12GB of Ram.

Yes DLSS requires more resources than just rendering at a lower resolution but the whole point of it is it takes less resources rendering at a low resolution and upscaling compared to rendering at that higher resolution in the first place. If it didn't there would be absolutely no reason for it to exist because of upscaling artifacts and frame timing issues etc. It's a free lunch compared to rendering at a high native resolution. It's quite possible the chipset for the Switch 2 has some functionality which optimises and reduces the load of DLSS upscaling on the main system anyway. When the Switch came out it was unknown whether it would succeed and the Switch basically had a slightly cut down and downclocked version of the standard Nvidia X1 but now Switch 2 can have more effort put into it with the expectation of high sales. So they can afford to design in more new features even if ultimately they want a low price for each manufactured unit as Nintendo like high profits from hardware even on day one.

That said I'm still expecting it to be a very capable unit but I think there will be a greater distance between docked and portable performance level than the original Switch. It will be a better home console in comparison to the portable side. We shall see but there is so little power going into the portable side maybe 1/4 of the power or maybe less. I can't see how the console can create 1080p 120fps visuals without heavy use of DLSS upscaling.

Ultimately very happy to be proven wrong though.  



According to a Korean outlet thelec, the Switch 2 is on Sammy 5nm. Not sure about the source, but if true would make sense given what we've seen with regards to performance-per-watt. 

https://www.thelec.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=34552

The price of Switch 2 in Korea is the second lowest after Japan. The exchange rate of 1,440 won per dollar was applied. It is assumed to be 2.2% lower than the current dollar/won exchange rate. In addition to the geographical proximity to the production facility, the fact that Korea's Vietnamese console tariff is only 8% was a factor in determining the price. Some say that Samsung Foundry sets the price low because it produces semiconductors through 5nm joint production, which shortens the supply route.






Pemalite said:

It's not as simple as that.

When you halve the precision, you tend to double the amount of computations you can perform (Depending on hardware support. I.E. Rapid Packed Math)... And that means the reverse is true. - It's rare on GPU's where you halve the precision you retain the same level of output.
So in general... FP16 will be twice as slow as FP8.

So it is actually harder to emulate.

For the most part AMD and nVidia have supported low-precision INT/FP for 5+ years now and more recently started to adopt bfloat.

As for DLSS itself, it does consume rendering budget, it's not a free lunch.

Functionally that is an acceptable level of compromise given the enormous gap between the Switch 2 and modern PC hardware - a good GPU's shaders already idle 80-90% of the time with ShadPS4, for instance. The main issue will likely be how to handle its interactions/requests to other system modules.

I'd expect the docked CPU will be the slowest component and need a lot of HLE hacks to work at first... though I'm not sure how heavy or not ARM emulation is in C++, to be honest, especially with SSE/AVX support. Apparently ARMv7, at least, runs well.



 

 

 

 

 

sc94597 said:

According to a Korean outlet thelec, the Switch 2 is on Sammy 5nm. Not sure about the source, but if true would make sense given what we've seen with regards to performance-per-watt. 

https://www.thelec.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=34552

The price of Switch 2 in Korea is the second lowest after Japan. The exchange rate of 1,440 won per dollar was applied. It is assumed to be 2.2% lower than the current dollar/won exchange rate. In addition to the geographical proximity to the production facility, the fact that Korea's Vietnamese console tariff is only 8% was a factor in determining the price. Some say that Samsung Foundry sets the price low because it produces semiconductors through 5nm joint production, which shortens the supply route.




5nm Samsung would make some sense for sure. 

Apparently SuperMetalDave64, the Youtube Nintendo fan says Digital Foundry counted pixels and Metroid Prime 4 is 4K native 60 fps on the Switch 2. That's pretty darn impressive if true. 



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Soundwave said:
sc94597 said:

According to a Korean outlet thelec, the Switch 2 is on Sammy 5nm. Not sure about the source, but if true would make sense given what we've seen with regards to performance-per-watt. 

https://www.thelec.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=34552

The price of Switch 2 in Korea is the second lowest after Japan. The exchange rate of 1,440 won per dollar was applied. It is assumed to be 2.2% lower than the current dollar/won exchange rate. In addition to the geographical proximity to the production facility, the fact that Korea's Vietnamese console tariff is only 8% was a factor in determining the price. Some say that Samsung Foundry sets the price low because it produces semiconductors through 5nm joint production, which shortens the supply route.




5nm Samsung would make some sense for sure. 

Apparently SuperMetalDave64, the Youtube Nintendo fan says Digital Foundry counted pixels and Metroid Prime 4 is 4K native 60 fps on the Switch 2. That's pretty darn impressive if true. 

It also hits 1080p/120fps in performance mode apparently.

On Switch 1 it's 900p/60fps, so it's about x6 higher res in 4K mode on Switch.



Split Fiction (PS5/XSS next-gen only title) compared on PS5 Pro Vs. Switch 2



Soundwave said:

Split Fiction (PS5/XSS next-gen only title) compared on PS5 Pro Vs. Switch 2

Interesting comparison. Sometimes the faces feel like they look sharper on Switch 2, but overall with background and texture you can see they are less refined on Switch 2.

Before they ran the side by side and slow mo comparison and just played each footage one after another they did feel very similar. So a good effort on Switch 2 that many won't even care there is a difference.



 

 

Soundwave said:

Split Fiction (PS5/XSS next-gen only title) compared on PS5 Pro Vs. Switch 2

Looks good here in single screen comparisons, the actual split screen gameplay looks a lot blurrier on Switch 2 though but that's not featured here.

I think Starwars Outlaws will be the first proper indicator of how the average current gen only game will fare. We have Wild hearts too but that game was already a fuzzy mess on PS5/Series X



Borderlands 4 is another current gen only console release that's hitting Switch 2, and an Unreal Engine 5 title as well, like Split Fiction.

The footage of that shown in the direct, assuming it was Switch 2, looked very solid.