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Forums - Nintendo - How Will be Switch 2 Performance Wise?

 

Switch 2 is out! How you classify?

Terribly outdated! 3 5.26%
 
Outdated 1 1.75%
 
Slightly outdated 14 24.56%
 
On point 31 54.39%
 
High tech! 7 12.28%
 
A mixed bag 1 1.75%
 
Total:57

On a new note, just watched the Donkey Kong Digital Foundry coverage and I am pretty impressed with the voxel implementation. Has given me some ideas.

I have been building a large high density voxel world that is composed of 16 x 120 sq.km zones (with 250m depth) in my free time in UE5 (with Voxel Plugin), and one of the things I have noticed is that it is easy to fill up system memory depending on the specific nanite/LoD settings.

The laptop I mainly develop it on has 128GB of system ram that it swaps easily from, so it isn't an issue, but if I were building it as a game it would have to require quite a bit of optimization. 

Last edited by sc94597 - on 14 August 2025

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Pemalite said:
curl-6 said:

Just started playing through the Phantom Liberty today, and it's seriously impressive stuff, even more so than the base game.

It's a shame there aren't more showpiece titles, with Nintendo's own games so far being rather graphically conservative and rooted in Switch 1 era rendering technology, but at least CD Projekt Red have stepped up and demonstrated what the hardware is really capable of.

Nintendo has targeted 60fps in most of their games since the Gamecube, even on power constrained systems like Wii and Switch 1. They'll almost certainly shoot for 60 in most of their Switch 2 games.

Not true, lots of Nintendo games don't achieve 60fps, many don't even achieve 30.

Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, Links Awakening, Echoes of Wisdom, Pokemon Scarlett/Violette, Pokemon Sword/Shield, Pikmin 1+2 HD, Paper Mario 1,000 year door, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, Super Mario RPG, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Pikmin 4, Smash Bro's Ultimate and more are all games that cannot maintain 60fps, most are 30fps.

Even Donkey Kong Bananza on Switch 2 exhibits frame rate drops on Nintendo's newest console.

There are a number of 30fps first party titles on Switch 1, but most target 60; Mario Odyssey, Mario Bros Wonder, Splatoon 2/3, Mario Kart 8, ARMS, Switch Sports, Tropical Freeze, all three Mario Party titles, Mario Strikers Battle League, Yoshi's Crafted World, Metroid Dread, Metroid Prime Remastered, Metroid Prime 4, Mario vs Donkey Kong, Mario Golf Super Rush, Ring Fit Adventure, Super Mario Maker 2, Mario Tennis Aces, Pokken Tournament DX, Clubhouse games, the Warioware games, 1-2 Switch, LABO, the Famicom Detective games, etc.

Smash Ultimate and Mario RPG are 60 as well, a game having rare dips doesn't make it not a 60fps game when it holds its target the vast majority of the time; most 60fps have some dips.



sc94597 said:
redkong said:

DF also noted that some geometry was down graded as well for switch 2 even compared to even PS4. Also PRO has higher over all resolution.

The Pro does have a higher internal resolution, but that is without the performance cost that DLSS introduces. If the Switch 2 didn't have DLSS using some of its resources, then it would allocate some of those resources used for DLSS to a higher internal pixel count than it currently does, because DLSS is not free. But they didn't choose to do this because DLSS with the lower internal resolution provides an overall better final image quality than TAA at the higher internal resolution.

As for the geometry point, there are unique scenes/assets where the Switch 2 version has reduced geometry, but Richard then says at 7:28 in the video you shared, "Rerunning Switch 2 against PS4 in the Kabuki run demonstrates a night and day difference in favor of the Nintendo console hybrid. The game presents with swathes of geometry, textures, and shadows missing [on PS4 and PS4 Pro]. A night and day difference." 

So overall I think it is safe to say that the Switch 2 isn't "downgraded" on-net as far as mesh complexity/geometry is concerned. The reduced geometry in those few scenes Richard highlighted probably is reduced for optimization given that the Switch 2 version is overall much more complex (mesh-wise) than the PS4/Pro version, to the point that Richard describes it as a "night and day difference" multiple times. 

Richard also says when comparing the PS4 Pro to switch 2 benchmarks  that the switch 2 is a lot of bespoke optimization so like i said not a great game for comparison.

You have plenty of  ports that don't use DLSS they hardly go over 1080p. Pro skater, yuzaka 0, WWE, and even Street fighter 6  needing to use DLSS at 540p while the Pro is doing it at 1440p higher settings. Also from the comparisons Fortnite looks better on PRO then switch 2.

Last edited by redkong - on 14 August 2025

redkong said:

You have plenty of  ports that don't use DLSS they hardly go over 1080p. Pro skater, yuzaka 0, WWE, and even Street fighter 6  needing to use DLSS at 540p while the Pro is doing it at 1440p higher settings.

What you don't seem to be getting is that using DLSS is not something that is done because it is "necessary to reach 1080p" but because it is superior to running at "native" 1080p with some inferior temporal method like basic TAA. In modern games, there really isn't such a thing as not using some form of temporal AA as the games are designed for it, so "native 1080p" rarely is "native" across the board of the rendering pipeline. Often you have noisy assets or effects at much lower resolutions than would be adequate without the temporal AA passes, and the TAA is required to make them look coherent without dithering effects and other noise artifacts. It also makes the game look very blurry. 

So you typically have two options:

1. run the game at your native target, get worse image quality because basic TAA is crappy, but you need a temporal solution of some kind. 

2. run the game with DLSS and get better image quality. With the cost that you have to lower internal resolution because DLSS consumes resources. 

It is pretty obvious which one developers are going to choose. The one that gives the better result. 

Also this is the same reason why Series S uses FSR 2 in many games, often with a lower internal resolution than PS4 Pro or One X. Even FSR 2 is better than basic TAA. 

Notice that many of the examples you provided are 7th Generation and early 8th Generation titles before TAA became the standard. Also notice that Switch 1 games (which aren't using DLSS most of the time) and early Nintendo Switch 2 games tend to run above 1080p on Switch 2, and Switch 1 games fall in between the 7th and 8th Generation in render techniques.

Last edited by sc94597 - on 14 August 2025

Otter said:

For this reason I don't think it makes sense to compare 60fps to 120fps, but more to the point, diminishing returns means the jump from 60 > 120, is not as important as the jump from 30> 60... Just as people care less with with resolution jumps, the same applies with FPS. It's not exempt.

Yeah, I agree with this.  Most people can see (and feel) the difference between 30fps and 60fps - same way anyone can see the difference between 480p and 1440p.  Going from 60fps to 120fps or 1440p to 2160p is not nearly as noticeable.  It's not that the difference isn't there, but like you said, diminishing returns.



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Chrkeller said:
HoloDust said:

I will guess you've seen this video, but if you haven't...

There is no fallback...as in, most games that have RT option, have it on certain things, but with still a lot of things being solved the other way if RT is disabled. Not so for SWO.

I am aware and to be clear I am not disputing the S2 does RT.  I am disputing the S2 doing RT with a stable framerate at a good resolution.  And SWO, thus far is showing this.  Clear dips in the low 20s and very clearly lower resolution.

Outlaws isn't cut back on Switch 2 cos of RT specifically, it's cut back cos it's an ambitious open world title that pushes PS5 and Xbox Series hard in terms of everything from detail to asset streaming, to the point where it maxes out at just 30fps on Series S with drops to 720p.

It's not in any way an indication that the hardware can't do RT with a stable framerate or a decent resolution, just that a high end home console game in general will require compromises to function on a contemporaneous portable device, which we already knew.



curl-6 said:
Chrkeller said:

I am aware and to be clear I am not disputing the S2 does RT.  I am disputing the S2 doing RT with a stable framerate at a good resolution.  And SWO, thus far is showing this.  Clear dips in the low 20s and very clearly lower resolution.

Outlaws isn't cut back on Switch 2 cos of RT specifically, it's cut back cos it's an ambitious open world title that pushes PS5 and Xbox Series hard in terms of everything from detail to asset streaming, to the point where it maxes out at just 30fps on Series S with drops to 720p.

It's not in any way an indication that the hardware can't do RT with a stable framerate or a decent resolution, just that a high end home console game in general will require compromises to function on a contemporaneous portable device, which we already knew.

If it used baked lighting it would run better  because RT is very demanding. Battle field 6 skips RT for that reason, to not sacrifice resolution and frame rate.



sc94597 said:
redkong said:

You have plenty of  ports that don't use DLSS they hardly go over 1080p. Pro skater, yuzaka 0, WWE, and even Street fighter 6  needing to use DLSS at 540p while the Pro is doing it at 1440p higher settings.

What you don't seem to be getting is that using DLSS is not something that is done because it is "necessary to reach 1080p" but because it is superior to running at "native" 1080p with some inferior temporal method like basic TAA. In modern games, there really isn't such a thing as not using some form of temporal AA as the games are designed for it, so "native 1080p" rarely is "native" across the board of the rendering pipeline. Often you have noisy assets or effects at much lower resolutions than would be adequate without the temporal AA passes, and the TAA is required to make them look coherent without dithering effects and other noise artifacts. It also makes the game look very blurry. 

So you typically have two options:

1. run the game at your native target, get worse image quality because basic TAA is crappy, but you need a temporal solution of some kind. 

2. run the game with DLSS and get better image quality. With the cost that you have to lower internal resolution because DLSS consumes resources. 

It is pretty obvious which one developers are going to choose. The one that gives the better result. 

Also this is the same reason why Series S uses FSR 2 in many games, often with a lower internal resolution than PS4 Pro or One X. Even FSR 2 is better than basic TAA. 

Notice that many of the examples you provided are 7th Generation and early 8th Generation titles before TAA became the standard. Also notice that Switch 1 games (which aren't using DLSS most of the time) and early Nintendo Switch 2 games tend to run above 1080p on Switch 2, and Switch 1 games fall in between the 7th and 8th Generation in render techniques.

Native 1080P resolution with good TAA should get you better results then DlSS upscaled from low resolutions, it really depends on the TAA. 

Last edited by redkong - on 14 August 2025

curl-6 said:
Pemalite said:

Not true, lots of Nintendo games don't achieve 60fps, many don't even achieve 30.

Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, Links Awakening, Echoes of Wisdom, Pokemon Scarlett/Violette, Pokemon Sword/Shield, Pikmin 1+2 HD, Paper Mario 1,000 year door, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, Super Mario RPG, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Pikmin 4, Smash Bro's Ultimate and more are all games that cannot maintain 60fps, most are 30fps.

Even Donkey Kong Bananza on Switch 2 exhibits frame rate drops on Nintendo's newest console.

There are a number of 30fps first party titles on Switch 1, but most target 60; Mario Odyssey, Mario Bros Wonder, Splatoon 2/3, Mario Kart 8, ARMS, Switch Sports, Tropical Freeze, all three Mario Party titles, Mario Strikers Battle League, Yoshi's Crafted World, Metroid Dread, Metroid Prime Remastered, Metroid Prime 4, Mario vs Donkey Kong, Mario Golf Super Rush, Ring Fit Adventure, Super Mario Maker 2, Mario Tennis Aces, Pokken Tournament DX, Clubhouse games, the Warioware games, 1-2 Switch, LABO, the Famicom Detective games, etc.

Smash Ultimate and Mario RPG are 60 as well, a game having rare dips doesn't make it not a 60fps game when it holds its target the vast majority of the time; most 60fps have some dips.

Mario Odyssey fails to achieve a permanent and full 60fps. There -are- drops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOpdeMVB5_8

Mario wonder drops to 40-45fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3yhU6hLVOY&t=806s

Splatoon 3, ARMS, Switch Sports, Tropical Freeze, Metroid Prime Remastered, Mario Golf, Ring Fit Adventure, Mario Maker 2, Pokken Tournament DX, Clubhoues Games (YOU WOULD HOPE SO!), Warioware, 1-2 switch (Meh), Labo, Famicom Detective games (Doesn't matter if it's 15fps or 120fps, some animations are 10fps) achieves 60fps always.
Mario Kart 8 also achieves 60fps always, fixing the 59fps bug in the WiiU release.

Super Mario Party see's drops under 60.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRNp8bOhGH4

Mario Strikers see's drops under 60 downwards to 15-30fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH7gRNh3rNA

Yoshi's Crafted World sees drops below 60fps, albeit rarely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w95yC7wfdUA

Metroid Dread will tank down to 45fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KrzJo15oSU

Metroid Prime 4 is -not- even out yet, so we can't ascertain what it's framerates will end up being, making it an irrelevant game to even mention.

Mario vs Donkey Kong sees framerates dip down to 50fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cPH2QKcIb0

Mario Tennis Aces sees drops below 60fps, albeit rarely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyZqeYW6s2Y

Smash Ultimate drops to 40fps. - Should have been a 30fps game, locked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEZLvXDZOqA

Super Mario RPG -  Drops to 40fps with some bad bad bad frame pacing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWGmO1QoFDE

And again... Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, Links Awakening, Echoes of Wisdom, Pokemon Scarlett/Violette, Pokemon Sword/Shield, Pikmin 1+2 HD, Paper Mario 1,000 year door, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Pikmin 4 and more are all games that cannot maintain 60fps, many are 30fps.

So yes, whilst Nintendo "attempts" to target 60fps in it's game, it often should not as it ruins the experience in many titles.

So anyone who claims Nintendo is somehow a "60fps powerhouse" has just drank the koolaid way to often, which the evidence I have presented, factually tells.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 15 August 2025


www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Pemalite said:
curl-6 said:

There are a number of 30fps first party titles on Switch 1, but most target 60; Mario Odyssey, Mario Bros Wonder, Splatoon 2/3, Mario Kart 8, ARMS, Switch Sports, Tropical Freeze, all three Mario Party titles, Mario Strikers Battle League, Yoshi's Crafted World, Metroid Dread, Metroid Prime Remastered, Metroid Prime 4, Mario vs Donkey Kong, Mario Golf Super Rush, Ring Fit Adventure, Super Mario Maker 2, Mario Tennis Aces, Pokken Tournament DX, Clubhouse games, the Warioware games, 1-2 Switch, LABO, the Famicom Detective games, etc.

Smash Ultimate and Mario RPG are 60 as well, a game having rare dips doesn't make it not a 60fps game when it holds its target the vast majority of the time; most 60fps have some dips.

Mario Odyssey fails to achieve a permanent and full 60fps. There -are- drops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOpdeMVB5_8

Mario wonder drops to 40-45fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3yhU6hLVOY&t=806s

Splatoon 3, ARMS, Switch Sports, Tropical Freeze, Metroid Prime Remastered, Mario Golf, Ring Fit Adventure, Mario Maker 2, Pokken Tournament DX, Clubhoues Games (YOU WOULD HOPE SO!), Warioware, 1-2 switch (Meh), Labo, Famicom Detective games (Doesn't matter if it's 15fps or 120fps, some animations are 10fps) achieves 60fps always.
Mario Kart 8 also achieves 60fps always, fixing the 59fps bug in the WiiU release.

Super Mario Party see's drops under 60.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRNp8bOhGH4

Mario Strikers see's drops under 60 downwards to 15-30fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH7gRNh3rNA

Yoshi's Crafted World sees drops below 60fps, albeit rarely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w95yC7wfdUA

Metroid Dread will tank down to 45fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KrzJo15oSU

Metroid Prime 4 is -not- even out yet, so we can't ascertain what it's framerates will end up being, making it an irrelevant game to even mention.

Mario vs Donkey Kong sees framerates dip down to 50fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cPH2QKcIb0

Mario Tennis Aces sees drops below 60fps, albeit rarely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyZqeYW6s2Y

Smash Ultimate drops to 40fps. - Should have been a 30fps game, locked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEZLvXDZOqA

Super Mario RPG -  Drops to 40fps with some bad bad bad frame pacing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWGmO1QoFDE

And again... Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom, Links Awakening, Echoes of Wisdom, Pokemon Scarlett/Violette, Pokemon Sword/Shield, Pikmin 1+2 HD, Paper Mario 1,000 year door, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Pikmin 4 and more are all games that cannot maintain 60fps, many are 30fps.

So yes, whilst Nintendo "attempts" to target 60fps in it's game, it often should not as it ruins the experience in many titles.

So anyone who claims Nintendo is somehow a "60fps powerhouse" has just drank the koolaid way to often was the evidence I have present tells.

Almost all 60fps games on every platform, even PS5 and Xbox Series X, have dips at some point. In all of the games above, any dips are rare. A game that runs at 60fps the vast majority of the time is a 60fps game. 

Nobody ever said anything about being a "powerhouse," but the fact is Nintendo has habitually designed for 60fps in most of their games for the last 20 years, it stands to reason this will remain the case on Switch 2.