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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - VGC: Switch 2 Was Shown At Gamescom Running Matrix Awakens UE5 Demo

numberwang said:

IDK what happened here but these results are terrible relative to the performance capabilities of an iPhone 15. I suspect a quick port into an unoptimized Android engine. Switch 2 will have a real console OS with Nvidia APIs, no comparison to Android/iOS gaming.

Power consumption, power consumption, power consumption. Your hardware might be as capable as the PS5's but you try running a PS5 on 50 times less electricity.

The API makes little difference, everything is close to metal in one way or another these days. Switch 2 games will find a fairly similar backend, but on a worse node and a GPU with a lower transistor count.

The real question is whether the undocked version will consume more power to compensate for these and surpass the iPhone 15 Pro's in-game capabilities.

The OG Switch, after all, probably runs games a little better than the iPhone X, but Apple has made huge strides in their hardware since.



 

 

 

 

 

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haxxiy said:
numberwang said:

IDK what happened here but these results are terrible relative to the performance capabilities of an iPhone 15. I suspect a quick port into an unoptimized Android engine. Switch 2 will have a real console OS with Nvidia APIs, no comparison to Android/iOS gaming.

Power consumption, power consumption, power consumption. Your hardware might be as capable as the PS5's but you try running a PS5 on 50 times less electricity.

The API makes little difference, everything is close to metal in one way or another these days. Switch 2 games will find a fairly similar backend, but on a worse node and a GPU with a lower transistor count.

The real question is whether the undocked version will consume more power to compensate for these and surpass the iPhone 15 Pro's in-game capabilities.

The OG Switch, after all, probably runs games a little better than the iPhone X, but Apple has made huge strides in their hardware since.

PS5 is like ~200 watts.
While a docked Switch can go ~30watts or so.

So more like a factor of 6-7x than 50 :P



It's a PS4 port, not PS5.

Edit: also 200ms input lag lol

Last edited by numberwang - on 03 January 2024

Chrkeller said:

Resident Evil 4 on the iPhone Pro doesn't even match the base ps4 version. DF seems to think it is 300p upscaled to 700p. Framerate is mostly stable at 30 fps.  Genuine question, given what we are seeing from the $1200 iPhone Pro on modern games, do people still think the $400 switch 2 is going to be comparable to the ps5?

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-resident-evil-4-on-iphone-15-pro-targets-the-ps4-experience-but-doesnt-quite-hit-the-target

I don't think the Switch 2 will be anywhere near PS5-level, but the iPhone Pro comparison isn't a good one.

For many reasons: 

1. Switch 2 will have active cooling. This will allow it to run at double to triple the TDP in docked mode and somewhat more as a handheld. The performance difference between 3-5W and 12W-15W is pretty significant, especially when the iPhone is likely thermal throttling at that 3-5W, all else being equal. 

2. Much of the iPhone's price is in its display, camera and build quality, and also there is the Apple tax for being stuck in their ecosystem. Phone prices are also an example of price-discrimination, with the base price being high and then there being heavy discounting based on buyers willingness to pay and carrier subsidies. 

3. The Switch 2 is still about a year out from release. 

4. Developers have more experience and tools developing for Nvidia GPU's than they do Apple Silicon. 

5. Standards for mobile games, for better or worse, are lower than for dedicated gaming platforms, so developers are more likely to take short-cuts. 

But yeah, given everything we know about the Switch 2 it won't be PS5 level. It'll be in the same tier as PS4 Pro, Xbox One X, and Series S in docked mode, and roughly PS4/Steam Deck level in handheld mode.

Last edited by sc94597 - on 03 January 2024

haxxiy said:

Switch 2 games will find a fairly similar backend, but on a worse node and a GPU with a lower transistor count.

The real question is whether the undocked version will consume more power to compensate for these and surpass the iPhone 15 Pro's in-game capabilities.

The OG Switch, after all, probably runs games a little better than the iPhone X, but Apple has made huge strides in their hardware since.

On the other-hand, iPhones like all smartphones tend to thermal throttle because they're passively cooled.

So even though one would expect about a 20% improvement in performance for 3nm vs. 5nm on the same chipset, and the iPhone's CPU is better, the active cooling for the Switch 2 probably could make up for it in terms of frame-time stability and general performance. Plus as you noted, it could probably pull a few more watts (3W for iPhone, maybe 5W for the chipset with Switch 2, more if it is bigger and houses a larger battery.)



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https://www.notebookcheck.net/Severe-Apple-iPhone-15-Pro-Max-thermal-throttling-reported-as-A17-Pro-appears-to-push-surface-temperatures-to-48-C-during-gaming.753143.0.html

So despite Apple's emphasis on the GPU prowess of the A17 Pro, the iPhone 15 Pro Max is only about 4.4% ahead in average FPS while consuming 4% less energy. These findings could be an indication that either the iPhone 15 Pro Max is choking due to insufficient thermal headroom or the reports about the A17 Pro being a slightly tweaked A16 Bionic with one more GPU core may have some truth to them or both.

Moving on, after sideloading and running Resident Evil Village on the iPhone 15 Pro Max at 1,560x720p resolution, Geekerwan displayed that the phone thermal throttles quite aggressively and the frame rate falls from mid-40s to around 30 FPS. Interestingly or rather disappointingly, the A17 Pro performance drops to lower than the A16 before recovering to the 30 FPS-level.

All in all, it seems that the A17 Pro produces a lot of heat while under stress and the iPhone 15 Pro Max’s cooling solution is not able to contain it resulting in significantly reduced performance. It will be interesting to see how the iPhone 15 Pro and 15 Pro Max handle upcoming big AAA games that are bound to be a lot more intensive than the mobile port of Genshin Impact.

Would be interesting to see how games run if somebody put a custom active cooler on the chipset somehow. 



sc94597 said:
Chrkeller said:

Resident Evil 4 on the iPhone Pro doesn't even match the base ps4 version. DF seems to think it is 300p upscaled to 700p. Framerate is mostly stable at 30 fps.  Genuine question, given what we are seeing from the $1200 iPhone Pro on modern games, do people still think the $400 switch 2 is going to be comparable to the ps5?

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-resident-evil-4-on-iphone-15-pro-targets-the-ps4-experience-but-doesnt-quite-hit-the-target

I don't think the Switch 2 will be anywhere near PS5-level, but the iPhone Pro comparison isn't a good one.

For many reasons: 

1. Switch 2 will have active cooling. This will allow it to run at double to triple the TDP in docked mode and somewhat more as a handheld. The performance difference between 3-5W and 12W-15W is pretty significant, especially when the iPhone is likely thermal throttling at that 3-5W, all else being equal. 

2. Much of the iPhone's price is in its display, camera and build quality, and also there is the Apple tax for being stuck in their ecosystem. Phone prices are also an example of price-discrimination, with the base price being high and then there being heavy discounting based on buyers willingness to pay and carrier subsidies. 

3. The Switch 2 is still about a year out from release. 

4. Developers have more experience and tools developing for Nvidia GPU's than they do Apple Silicon. 

5. Standards for mobile games, for better or worse, are lower than for dedicated gaming platforms, so developers are more likely to take short-cuts. 

But yeah, given everything we know about the Switch 2 it won't be PS5 level. It'll be in the same tier as PS4 Pro, Xbox One X, and Series S in docked mode, and roughly PS4/Steam Deck level in handheld mode.

Well said, I agree.  I just know some are expecting the switch 2 to ps5 like fidelity, which was the case with apple's new chips.  Hence why I brought up some reviews.  Mobile has limitations.  



Switch 2 will will ps4 with dlss in docked mode.



zeldaring said:

Switch 2 will will ps4 with dlss in docked mode.

Yep.  DLSS might push ps4 pro, maybe.  I have a 4070 and 13700, just my opinion but DLSS is nice but nowhere as great as people make it out be.  RT is a fps killer.  Looks great but RT is going to be a challenge for the switch.  My 4070 doesn't do great with RT, I lose 30% fps quickly.  



Any thoughts on the analyst's prediction of a $400 price tag and the switch 2 being an iteration and not revolution?

I don't see how the analyst would know anything more than anyone else, but $400 has been my guess for a while.