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Forums - Sales Discussion - Famitsu Sales: Week 26, 2023 (Jun 19 - Jun 25)

Wyrdness said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Well, the games keep selling a lot, even if not as much as other IPs and they have a huge following, enough to keep vesting AAA budget

While they might be concerned with sales I don't think they have reached a point they should step back form doing what they want just yet, their games sell well enough and are still very liked 

I don't think Square have ever issued a mainline FF game (sequels and spin offs are different) that scored bellow 80s. Even XV who suffered devopment hell and is arguably one of the most hated entries still sold 10 million

While FF seems to receive much stronger criticism than other IPs I believe this is just because people have their own expectations of what an FF game should be or look but keep coming back to the franchise, while in other franchises if you don't like an entry you don't have many reasons to comeback, as the sequel is likely to be similar. 

Here's what's happening with FF we've had a linear disappointment in the XIII games to a MMO that required two attempts to get off the ground to a very bland open world game to now a DMC lite title. It feels like a roulette of trends it would be better if some of these were new IPs. 

Seriously do do you even played them ? Or are you just quoting some cliché found on the internet ? 

It's okay to hate if you can't played them tho even if it's childish behaviour.



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Chrkeller said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I'm totally okay with people not liking the gameplay, people who hate the linear aspect as well as the walking (which is basically the gameplay loop of 90% of FF games) is completely fine 

But the games are not trying to be open world, that's the opposite of what's happening

I'll restate.  Too big is my problem.  FF doesn't need to be 80 hours.  To be fair it isn't just a FF problem, but with many games.  Bigger isn't better when it is unfocused, fluff and tedium.  

FF16 isn't 80 hours tho unless you're trying to 100%. It's about 35 hours (10ish hours of cutscenes) I think it's just that it feels long and big because the movement is kinda slow and lots of pauses between dialogue. But honestly that's not any different with older titles.

Last edited by Shatts - on 30 June 2023

Chrkeller said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I'm totally okay with people not liking the gameplay, people who hate the linear aspect as well as the walking (which is basically the gameplay loop of 90% of FF games) is completely fine 

But the games are not trying to be open world, that's the opposite of what's happening

I'll restate.  Too big is my problem.  FF doesn't need to be 80 hours.  To be fair it isn't just a FF problem, but with many games.  Bigger isn't better when it is unfocused, fluff and tedium.  

XV can be finished in less than 30 hours even with the open world, XVI too. VII to XIII were bigger (story).

What XV and XVI have is a lot of optional quests, which I agree can bring a lot of padding, but it can't be helped, most people buying just a handful games a year and want to spent a hundred of hours of them, that's why there are so many boring and useless quests. If they are indeed optional they don't bother me much.



-Adonis- said:
Wyrdness said:

Here's what's happening with FF we've had a linear disappointment in the XIII games to a MMO that required two attempts to get off the ground to a very bland open world game to now a DMC lite title. It feels like a roulette of trends it would be better if some of these were new IPs. 

Seriously do do you even played them ? Or are you just quoting some cliché found on the internet ? 

It's okay to hate if you can't played them tho even if it's childish behaviour.

Yes I have played them and still own them that's how I formed my opinion and how many others have as well. Guess what's actually childish getting salty over differing opinions it's no one else's problem if it's hard for you to take. 



Wyrdness said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Well, the games keep selling a lot, even if not as much as other IPs and they have a huge following, enough to keep vesting AAA budget

While they might be concerned with sales I don't think they have reached a point they should step back form doing what they want just yet, their games sell well enough and are still very liked 

I don't think Square have ever issued a mainline FF game (sequels and spin offs are different) that scored bellow 80s. Even XV who suffered devopment hell and is arguably one of the most hated entries still sold 10 million

While FF seems to receive much stronger criticism than other IPs I believe this is just because people have their own expectations of what an FF game should be or look but keep coming back to the franchise, while in other franchises if you don't like an entry you don't have many reasons to comeback, as the sequel is likely to be similar. 

The are factors you're not accounting for here for one with every gen costs increase especially for bigger games as development is longer and releases are fewer secondly I highlighted already earlier in the thread why XV sold better it was multiplatform plus I'll also add that it was also the first new installment in a decade.

FF receives criticism because it's been an inconsistent franchise for over a decade now, again having an identity is not and was never a bad thing it actually helps developers as they know who their target audience are beforehand as well as things to build up the userbase and it helps reign in freedom to avoid what Mikami pointed out and this leads to developers refining a series.

Here's what's happening with FF we've had a linear disappointment in the XIII games to a MMO that required two attempts to get off the ground to a very bland open world game to now a DMC lite title. It feels like a roulette of trends it would be better if some of these were new IPs. 

I have no doubt XVI will be released on PC eventually, your fake concern about sales is baseless. PC release came 2 years after console release, and it still sold a lot on PC. XV came out 7 years after XIII, just like XVI came out 7 years after XV, I don't know how is this exactly relevant to the discussion

XIV has a big and active userbase and keep getting awards on yearly basis, whatever bitter taste it left on launch it's now far gone. If anything XIV is the biggest Square success this decade, maybe their biggest ever. No wonder why they deployed XIV team to create XVI, and the results was a much more smooth development cycle compared to XV

You seem to have a very Fordist mind. Not everyone wants to release games made only to sell. In the same way not everybody wants to only release super hero movies. Sure, development costs are huge that's why what they can do is still limited as the game need to be at least commercialy appealing, but so far I can't say FF is flopping, far from that.

You basically wants the only AAA IP who can dares to experiment in every entry to start being more of the same. For what reason? What has the industry or anyone to gain with turning FF a new RPG commodity? A few more sales to brag about on forums? If anything, you should be happy because even if you hate a FF entry there are chances that you will like the next one, because they are so different from each other



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IcaroRibeiro said:

I have no doubt XVI will be released on PC eventually, your fake concern about sales is baseless. PC release came 2 years after console release, and it still sold a lot on PC. XV came out 7 years after XIII, just like XVI came out 7 years after XV, I don't know how is this exactly relevant to the discussion

XIV has a big and active userbase and keep getting awards on yearly basis, whatever bitter taste it left on launch it's now far gone. If anything XIV is the biggest Square success this decade, maybe their biggest ever. No wonder why they deployed XIV team to create XVI, and the results was a much more smooth development cycle compared to XV

You seem to have a very Fordist mind. Not everyone wants to release games made only to sell. In the same way not everybody wants to only release super hero movies. Sure, development costs are huge that's why what they can do is still limited as the game need to be at least commercialy appealing, but so far I can't say FF is flopping, far from that.

You basically wants the only AAA IP who can dares to experiment in every entry to start being more of the same. For what reason? What has the industry or anyone to gain with turning FF a new RPG commodity? A few more sales to brag about on forums? If anything, you should be happy because even if you hate a FF entry there are chances that you will like the next one, because they are so different from each other

Not sure your point on PC as that backs the point of being multiplatform, not everyone makes things only to sell but ultimately that is the defining factor in a series sustaining itself this isn't Fordist it's acknowledging aspects of reality in the long run.

You miss the point with the named games it highlights the inconsistency that crops up when the is no identity guiding direction, identity doesn't equate to more of the same it equates to being more focused which helps consistency.

FF being an Rpg commodity would be an improvement tbh and help the industry by helping push the genre like it did before. 



Wyrdness said:
-Adonis- said:

Seriously do do you even played them ? Or are you just quoting some cliché found on the internet ? 

It's okay to hate if you can't played them tho even if it's childish behaviour.

Yes I have played them and still own them that's how I formed my opinion and how many others have as well. Guess what's actually childish getting salty over differing opinions it's no one else's problem if it's hard for you to take. 

I can see that you are angry.

You even did FF16 ? I mean... already ? Despite being a FF hater for a long time now ?



Shatts said:

... I think it's just that it feels long and big because the movement is kinda slow and lots of pauses...



...to avoid getting banned for inactivity, I may have to resort to comments that are of a lower overall quality and or beneath my moral standards.

IcaroRibeiro said:
Chrkeller said:

I'll restate.  Too big is my problem.  FF doesn't need to be 80 hours.  To be fair it isn't just a FF problem, but with many games.  Bigger isn't better when it is unfocused, fluff and tedium.  

XV can be finished in less than 30 hours even with the open world, XVI too. VII to XIII were bigger (story).

What XV and XVI have is a lot of optional quests, which I agree can bring a lot of padding, but it can't be helped, most people buying just a handful games a year and want to spent a hundred of hours of them, that's why there are so many boring and useless quests. If they are indeed optional they don't bother me much.

Most of it is my own fault, I tend to be a completion type and the boring optional stuff annoys bit I'm struggle not doing it.  

I thought 7 Remake was amazing and a good example of focus.  The side quests were largely short and sweet.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 30 June 2023

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Wyrdness said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I have no doubt XVI will be released on PC eventually, your fake concern about sales is baseless. PC release came 2 years after console release, and it still sold a lot on PC. XV came out 7 years after XIII, just like XVI came out 7 years after XV, I don't know how is this exactly relevant to the discussion

XIV has a big and active userbase and keep getting awards on yearly basis, whatever bitter taste it left on launch it's now far gone. If anything XIV is the biggest Square success this decade, maybe their biggest ever. No wonder why they deployed XIV team to create XVI, and the results was a much more smooth development cycle compared to XV

You seem to have a very Fordist mind. Not everyone wants to release games made only to sell. In the same way not everybody wants to only release super hero movies. Sure, development costs are huge that's why what they can do is still limited as the game need to be at least commercialy appealing, but so far I can't say FF is flopping, far from that.

You basically wants the only AAA IP who can dares to experiment in every entry to start being more of the same. For what reason? What has the industry or anyone to gain with turning FF a new RPG commodity? A few more sales to brag about on forums? If anything, you should be happy because even if you hate a FF entry there are chances that you will like the next one, because they are so different from each other

Not sure your point on PC as that backs the point of being multiplatform, not everyone makes things only to sell but ultimately that is the defining factor in a series sustaining itself this isn't Fordist it's acknowledging aspects of reality in the long run.

You miss the point with the named games it highlights the inconsistency that crops up when the is no identity guiding direction, identity doesn't equate to more of the same it equates to being more focused which helps consistency.

FF being an Rpg commodity would be an improvement tbh and help the industry by helping push the genre like it did before. 

I said I was sure about the PC release to drive bigger sales in the long run, so sales decreasing now compared to XV aren't really a trouble unless the PC version comes out.

As far I am concerned the series are very sustainable, XV was the best selling JRPG last gen, and XVI has a chance to repeat it (although Persona 6 or Dragon Quest XII can be a contender, I would love to see any of them reaching 10 million).

I don't agree with your point about FF turning into a commodity for massification, in handsight for FF to sell as much as other IPs it would to drastically changes the gameplay because I can't see a story focused single player games selling like Monster Hunter of The Witcher. I'm totally okay if they want to turn FF into a, let's say, Elden Ring, but only if they do it in a conscious way instead of a desperate attempt to sell more copies 

Nonetheless, there is already a mass market product on FF franchise, which is FF XIV. It's perfectly appealing. It's a MMO with focus on multiplayer while it keep many if the single player games aspects as you can finish every main season by yourself in few weeks and then just wait for the next update. It has a massive world and overall is just much more suited for making money. 

I understand and respect you want FF to find a formula and stick to it, it's your right. I'm just glad Square is not stepping back. We already have too many franchises that goes to the path (and I'm a fan of many of them), meanwhile we have a shortage of IPs who do the opposite, so I hope FF never change their design Philosophy