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Forums - Politics Discussion - Saudi Arabia in talks with SE for 8 months to get LGBT content censored

zeldaring on 19 June 2023
DonFerrari said:
zeldaring said:

I'm surprised, why is it so common in the US and canada but not in latin America when they are the same religion.

Perhaps because Brazil is catholic predominant (even though protestant have grow a lot, but don't hear it being applicable on them as well), while Canada and USA protestant is much more dominant? Also even when looking at the type of protestant religion I would say the doctrines from USA/Canada is very different from Brazil as well.

And looking for other data it seems that less than 10% of the children until 10 years have done the surgery and most of them were for medical reason instead of religious one.

Not sure why god would want humans to alter themselves like that, doesn't make no sense.



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Ka-pi96 on 19 June 2023
zeldaring said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Ignorance is bliss.

"the practice became associated with Islam because of that religion's focus on female chastity and seclusion" "in 18 African countries at least 10 percent of Muslim females had experienced FGM, and in 13 of those countries, the figure rose to 50–99 percent" "it is regarded as obligatory by the Shafi'i version of Sunni Islam"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation#Reasons

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. because thats mainly a african traditional thing, using your same source. basically this a traditional african thing and really has nothing to with Saudi Arabia  

What religion is associated with FGM?
And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions. 

FGM is practised predominantly within certain Muslim societies, but it also exists within some adjacent Christian and animist groups. The practice isn't required by most forms of Islam and fatwas have been issued forbidding FGM, favouring it, or leaving the decision to parents but advising against it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_female_genital_mutilation#:~:text=FGM%20is%20practised%20predominantly%20within,parents%20but%20advising%20against%20it

A. It is relevant to the original post of this discussion where somebody was saying "some states don't like mutilating kid's genitals". Seems incredibly unlikely that Saudi is one such state, given islam clearly has no qualms about that and in some cases even encourages it, so is a hypocritical stance to take. Also completely stupid considering a game having 2 guys kissing or whatever the issue here is doesn't mutilate children.

B. It happens in some Middle-Eastern countries and Indonesia too. So it's not just African countries. And almost all of the countries it happens in are muslim majority countries.

C. It proves "females genitals are never touched in islam" to be categorically false. So what are YOU talking about?



zeldaring on 19 June 2023
Ka-pi96 said:
zeldaring said:

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. because thats mainly a african traditional thing, using your same source. basically this a traditional african thing and really has nothing to with Saudi Arabia  

What religion is associated with FGM?
And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions. 

FGM is practised predominantly within certain Muslim societies, but it also exists within some adjacent Christian and animist groups. The practice isn't required by most forms of Islam and fatwas have been issued forbidding FGM, favouring it, or leaving the decision to parents but advising against it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_female_genital_mutilation#:~:text=FGM%20is%20practised%20predominantly%20within,parents%20but%20advising%20against%20it

A. It is relevant to the original post of this discussion where somebody was saying "some states don't like mutilating kid's genitals". Seems incredibly unlikely that Saudi is one such state, given islam clearly has no qualms about that and in some cases even encourages it, so is a hypocritical stance to take. Also completely stupid considering a game having 2 guys kissing or whatever the issue here is doesn't mutilate children.

B. It happens in some Middle-Eastern countries and Indonesia too. So it's not just African countries. And almost all of the countries it happens in are muslim majority countries.

C. It proves "females genitals are never touched in islam" to be categorically false. So what are YOU talking about?

Islam does have qualms about it. there is a huge push to stop the practice and the vast majority don't do it. Egypt just raised the sentence to 20 years from 7 years for FGM.  

Last edited by zeldaring - on 19 June 2023

DonFerrari on 19 June 2023
zeldaring said:
DonFerrari said:

Perhaps because Brazil is catholic predominant (even though protestant have grow a lot, but don't hear it being applicable on them as well), while Canada and USA protestant is much more dominant? Also even when looking at the type of protestant religion I would say the doctrines from USA/Canada is very different from Brazil as well.

And looking for other data it seems that less than 10% of the children until 10 years have done the surgery and most of them were for medical reason instead of religious one.

Not sure why god would want humans to alter themselves like that, doesn't make no sense.

A lot of the obscure practices from these abrahamic religions made a lot of sense at the time. Circumcision would eliminate a lot of risk of infection over time, same with the type of food they were allowed to eat and how to eat (that reduce risk of some diseases). Nowadays of course that is all basically useless.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 19 June 2023
Ka-pi96 said:
zeldaring said:

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. because thats mainly a african traditional thing, using your same source. basically this a traditional african thing and really has nothing to with Saudi Arabia  

What religion is associated with FGM?
And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions. 

FGM is practised predominantly within certain Muslim societies, but it also exists within some adjacent Christian and animist groups. The practice isn't required by most forms of Islam and fatwas have been issued forbidding FGM, favouring it, or leaving the decision to parents but advising against it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_female_genital_mutilation#:~:text=FGM%20is%20practised%20predominantly%20within,parents%20but%20advising%20against%20it

A. It is relevant to the original post of this discussion where somebody was saying "some states don't like mutilating kid's genitals". Seems incredibly unlikely that Saudi is one such state, given islam clearly has no qualms about that and in some cases even encourages it, so is a hypocritical stance to take. Also completely stupid considering a game having 2 guys kissing or whatever the issue here is doesn't mutilate children.

B. It happens in some Middle-Eastern countries and Indonesia too. So it's not just African countries. And almost all of the countries it happens in are muslim majority countries.

C. It proves "females genitals are never touched in islam" to be categorically false. So what are YOU talking about?

Just want to point out that the fact that the majority of the population in a country that do something being muslim doesn't prove that the religion itself demands or promote it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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LurkerJ on 19 June 2023
zeldaring said:
Ka-pi96 said:

For males, although islam does it often too.

Was more referring to female genital mutilation though. I think that's exclusive to islam and is absolutely abhorrent!

what are you talking about? females genitals are never touched in islam. The only thing that important is she remains a virgin till getting married.

What are YOU talking about? Please.

Islam doesn't prevent or prohibit FGM. There is plethora of Islam literature that praises the practice and promote it. The countries that choose to ignore this sort of literature ignore it for the same reason they ignore the Islamic literature that covers slavery; neither is prohibited by Islam but neither is compatible with modern life.

It's important to understand the difference between what Islam allows/promotes and when modern moderate Muslims choose to ignore specific Islamic teachings that are deemed too barbaric nowadays. 



zeldaring on 19 June 2023
LurkerJ said:
zeldaring said:

what are you talking about? females genitals are never touched in islam. The only thing that important is she remains a virgin till getting married.

What are YOU talking about? Please.

Islam doesn't prevent or prohibit FGM. There is plethora of Islam literature that praises the practice and promote it. The countries that choose to ignore this sort of literature ignore it for the same reason they ignore the Islamic literature that covers slavery; neither is prohibited by Islam but neither is compatible with modern life.

It's important to understand the difference between what Islam allows/promotes and when modern moderate Muslims choose to ignore specific Islamic teachings that are deemed too barbaric nowadays. 

if you follow the the old testament it promotes killing and rape of woman and children, all these book have barbaric teachings in them. no where in the quran does it promote doing FGM.  the problem comes from the so called hadith which is basically what they think they heard from there prophet say, and its been proven many are made up. personally i'm not religious but i'm not against people who are because it does help them with life.  

Last edited by zeldaring - on 19 June 2023

LurkerJ on 19 June 2023
zeldaring said:
LurkerJ said:

What are YOU talking about? Please.

Islam doesn't prevent or prohibit FGM. There is plethora of Islam literature that praises the practice and promote it. The countries that choose to ignore this sort of literature ignore it for the same reason they ignore the Islamic literature that covers slavery; neither is prohibited by Islam but neither is compatible with modern life.

It's important to understand the difference between what Islam allows/promotes and when modern moderate Muslims choose to ignore specific Islamic teachings that are deemed too barbaric nowadays. 

if you follow the the old testament it promotes killing and rape of woman and children, all these book have barbaric teachings in them. no where in the quran does it promote doing FGM.  the problem comes from the so called hadith which is basically what they think they heard from there prophet say, and its been proven many are made up. personally i'm not religious but i'm not against people who are because it does help them with life.  

Yeah, Abrahamic religions promote hate and are guilty of hate speech, all of them teach extremism and there are no moderate versions of them, there are, however, moderate practitioners of those faiths that choose to ignore as much as possible of the barbaric teachings (and fall short, evidently). In any case, I was specifically responding to your point about Islam being innocent of any teachings that promote FGM, which is false. 

The argument about Hadiths being irrelevant is moot, since the overwhelming majority of the Islamic world still derive lots of their teachings from, whether if those teachings are mentioned in the Quran or not is irrelevant to them.

On the other hand, you have concepts like slavery, discussed extensively in the Quran and the Hadith, yet, slavery is entirely omitted from a Muslim's everyday life. 

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 20 June 2023

160rmf on 20 June 2023
DonFerrari said:

The destruction I put is more on those very biggoted views that overcompensate to the opposite side of "tradition" and try to put every man as potential rapist, society as being totally oppresive of women in favor of men, traditional family as ruined and toxical for society, etc. There are some cases of ads on this line and there is a very clear editorial standard for this in newspaper in Brazil (like gender, race, etc being heavily reported when it is "a group of power" or ignored when it is otherwise and sometimes doesn't even report 

Like if the crimes against gender, sexuality and race aren't something to be enlightened, right?

Imagine being killed just because you are a woman, LGBT or black and choose to live your life without the restrictions subtly imposed by the toxic traits of the traditional way? And to add that, the killer can even consider in the right to do that, because it has a considerable part of the society backing up this behavior for the wealth of the "good citizens".  

You see more "good citizens" feeling attacked because the oppressed ones are getting their rights and visibility; and also for losing their privileges to act freely and get no punishment for their bad acts, specially against those same minorities, than the left attacking people that live in a traditional way just for the sake of ending the traditional family.

This overcompensation that you see in the news, actually, it's just the cruel reality of this country being displayed. This place has still a lot to evolve from this retrograde mentality. 

Last edited by 160rmf - on 20 June 2023

 

 

We reap what we sow

Astrals on 20 June 2023

How do we know that the reason of the block was LGBT related? The tweet doesn't say that with certainty. I ask because FFVII remake was blocked in some middle eastern counties for some other unknown reason.

Obviously, the cultural differences are too wide. It is fruitless to argue about it. I have no idea how you guys find the motivation to do it continuously. I just find it silly to believe that it is black and white situation. Judging from some of the statmets that are made here. The differences will only grow wider with time.