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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Did Microsoft make big a mistake?

Wman1996 said:

The Xbox Series is on the path to outsell the Xbox One by a notable margin

Wow, where did you see that ?



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gtotheunit91 said:
DonFerrari said:

Since we don't have the VR sales yet we can't infer much.

Yeah, fair point. I was asking because Steam Deck is always the best seller on Steam every week, but Steam goes by revenue, so it would make sense that the Deck is always the best seller just because of how much more expensive it is over games.

chakkra said:
DonFerrari said:

I would say you missed the difference between Sony and Xbox main games being SP and MP games so Sony having a much more front loaded sales curve, just look at the maximum peaks, but sure after some weeks Sony games will drop from the top while MS games will be there for longer.

I didn't miss it at all. I simply did not mention it because it doesn't make a difference to my point; whether someone is driven to buy a game because it is singleplayer or multiplayer it makes no difference; at the end of the day, something about said game drew them in. In fact, I would argue that the relative lack of multiplayer exclusives from Sony should have given Xbox an advantage with that demographic, but so far that theorical advantage hasn't translated into hardware sales; why? because people are content playing them on PC.

You were talking about the ranking of consecutive sales on PC. Even in consoles if you go look for the ranking most of Sony titles drop the rank very fast after release (I have seem 60 to 85% drop from launch week to second week), so if the title is front loaded it may sell 5M in the first week and being on the first spot and never again showing in top10 and perhaps in 1 month dropping from top 100 and still would sell a lot more than a title that released with 500k sold first week being let's say 10 in the rank but then remaining 6 months on the top 100. That is why I told you to look at the maximum peak of the titles and you'll see that most of the Sony titles had higher numbers than Xbox on that metric. So it is likely that the difference in sales between the MS and Sony titles in PC isn't that big.

SKMBlake said:
Wman1996 said:

The Xbox Series is on the path to outsell the Xbox One by a notable margin

Wow, where did you see that ?

He is probably only taking in consideration that MS still says Series is so far the fastest Xbox in sales ever.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

It could be a mistake if the only factor is Xbox hardware sales but there's much more to it than that. I can see Sony sticking to not doing day and date since that way they'll get software sales from the people who'll either never buy a console or will buy console and exclusives used while also getting the people who wanna play their games right away buying it on PlayStation and people buying their software in their console ecosystem is more important to them compared to Microsoft.



In addition to other great points brought up (better sales performance because they're released day and date, the genres/gameplay loops span more interest from the PC crowd, the multiplayer focus encourages a longer tail end) I think one major consideration to make that makes this entire comparison somewhat dubious (especially if we compare 24h peaks) is that XGS very recently (ended yesterday) had a publisher sale on Steam. So the player stats would be inflated over this time (especially near the closing of the sale) as more people are motivated to purchase these titles on sale and check them out.

If we use peak player numbers, then outside of the big multiplayer releases (the Halo titles), everything else is rather aligned with the Sony published releases, ranging anywhere from a few thousand players to ~75k.

Info on the sale that just ran: https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/3090835/view/3685671291150422658



trasharmdsister12 said:

In addition to other great points brought up (better sales performance because they're released day and date, the genres/gameplay loops span more interest from the PC crowd, the multiplayer focus encourages a longer tail end) I think one major consideration to make that makes this entire comparison somewhat dubious (especially if we compare 24h peaks) is that XGS very recently (ended yesterday) had a publisher sale on Steam. So the player stats would be inflated over this time (especially near the closing of the sale) as more people are motivated to purchase these titles on sale and check them out.

If we use peak player numbers, then outside of the big multiplayer releases (the Halo titles), everything else is rather aligned with the Sony published releases, ranging anywhere from a few thousand players to ~75k.

Info on the sale that just ran: https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/3090835/view/3685671291150422658

It is unfortunate that we don't have any trustful source for sales on PC, Sony gives some breakdown for some titles, but MS side we don't know for sure how much each title sold so it isn't really possible to compare with an acceptable degree of certainty. 



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Probably a combination of things.
On top of not releasing on PC Day 1, if many more people own a Playstation, then there are also fewer people who have not yet played the PS games before.

Double dipping is less common than buying a game once.

As for play time, that usually depends on the type of game. Live Service games tend to have more replay value than stadard games.
Same goes for online or multiplayer vs offline or singe player, etc.

Chazore said:

I like having a choice and I like my time being respected, hence I prefer day and date releases

I don't think release dates are about respecting our time, but about our wallets, and what makes most sense for the publisher from a monetary perspective.
But these days there are so many games to play that I have a huge backlog of Day 1 purchases that I still haven't played, to the point where a delay for whatever reason probaby wouldn't bother me anyway.

Last edited by Hiku - on 05 May 2023

Hiku said:
Chazore said:

I like having a choice and I like my time being respected, hence I prefer day and date releases

I don't think release dates are about respecting our time, but about our wallets, and what makes most sense for the publisher from a monetary perspective.
But these days there are so many games to play that I have a huge backlog of Day 1 purchases that I still haven't played, to the point where a delay for whatever reason probaby wouldn't bother me anyway.

I feel like time and money are both important to people through all walks of life, not just the wallets.

If I'm being put at the back of the line and told to wait longer, but pay the same price, I'm less inclined to stay in that line for very long and instead go elsewhere, or wait for said product to be sold at a much cheaper price later on down the line (This is what I did for HZD and Days Gone, where I waited for both to go cheap enough, that I could buy them both for the price of what HZD had originally sold at on PC).

But these days, being with how port jobs are, I'm less inclined to pay top price day one for AAA's anyway. Though I'm still not fond of the 2-3yr gaps Sony is doing vs what MS is doing (day and date and across multiple clients/services like gamepass). 

OT: I forgot the time when Sony did say they would try aiming for day and date for their service/MP titles, but I swear I saw that somewhere, so they could very well end up emulating MS with their multiplayer titles being day and date (which makes sense, as they have the longer tail vs a SP game that gets played a few times and player counts drop off).

Last edited by Chazore - on 05 May 2023

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Chazore said:
Hiku said:

I don't think release dates are about respecting our time, but about our wallets, and what makes most sense for the publisher from a monetary perspective.
But these days there are so many games to play that I have a huge backlog of Day 1 purchases that I still haven't played, to the point where a delay for whatever reason probaby wouldn't bother me anyway.

I feel like time and money are both important to people through all walks of life, not just the wallets.

If I'm being put at the back of the line and told to wait longer, but pay the same price, I'm less inclined to stay in that line for very long and instead go elsewhere, or wait for said product to be sold at a much cheaper price later on down the line (This is what I did for HZD and Days Gone, where I waited for both to go cheap enough, that I could buy them both for the price of what HZD had originally sold at on PC).

But these days, being with how port jobs are, I'm less inclined to pay top price day one for AAA's anyway. Though I'm still not fond of the 2-3yr gaps Sony is doing vs what MS is doing (day and date and across multiple clients/services like gamepass). 

OT: I forgot the time when Sony did say they would try aiming for day and date for their service/MP titles, but I swear I saw that somewhere, so they could very well end up emulating MS with their multiplayer titles being day and date (which makes sense, as they have the longer tail vs a SP game that gets played a few times and player counts drop off).

Time is very important to people.
I'm just saying that publishers who have shareholders are only interested in our money, and will try to release a game when it makes most financial sense to them. For some games/publishers that is Day 1 on some platforms. For others its later. No matter what day it hits the shelves, I wouldn't expect that they are trying to respect our time.

For example, I got God of War Ragnarok on release day. Do I feel that they are respecting my time more than PC players?
Not at all. They couldn't care less about my time. They are only interested in my wallet.

There's that old saying that game companies are not our friends, so I don't take these decisions personally.


That said, people can certainly feel like they want to play a game at a certain point in time. And if they're unable to, do what feels right for them.
Aside from the many problematic PC ports recently, I think where I would have an issue is if it's something like a competetive game.
It's not ideal to jump into a fighting game 1 year later when most of my opponents have 1 year worth of experience over me.

Last edited by Hiku - on 05 May 2023

trasharmdsister12 said:

In addition to other great points brought up (better sales performance because they're released day and date, the genres/gameplay loops span more interest from the PC crowd, the multiplayer focus encourages a longer tail end) I think one major consideration to make that makes this entire comparison somewhat dubious (especially if we compare 24h peaks) is that XGS very recently (ended yesterday) had a publisher sale on Steam. So the player stats would be inflated over this time (especially near the closing of the sale) as more people are motivated to purchase these titles on sale and check them out.

If we use peak player numbers, then outside of the big multiplayer releases (the Halo titles), everything else is rather aligned with the Sony published releases, ranging anywhere from a few thousand players to ~75k.

Info on the sale that just ran: https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/3090835/view/3685671291150422658

That's a good point. I was not aware that there was a sale recently. I will check back in a couple of weeks to see how the player numbers is affected.
But I will say though, SoT, FH5 and MFS have all been in the best selling top 100 for dozens of weeks now (with SoT being in there for more than 120 weeks in its previous round). That's not something that can be achieved with a couple of weeks promotion.



Hiku said:
Chazore said:

I feel like time and money are both important to people through all walks of life, not just the wallets.

If I'm being put at the back of the line and told to wait longer, but pay the same price, I'm less inclined to stay in that line for very long and instead go elsewhere, or wait for said product to be sold at a much cheaper price later on down the line (This is what I did for HZD and Days Gone, where I waited for both to go cheap enough, that I could buy them both for the price of what HZD had originally sold at on PC).

But these days, being with how port jobs are, I'm less inclined to pay top price day one for AAA's anyway. Though I'm still not fond of the 2-3yr gaps Sony is doing vs what MS is doing (day and date and across multiple clients/services like gamepass). 

OT: I forgot the time when Sony did say they would try aiming for day and date for their service/MP titles, but I swear I saw that somewhere, so they could very well end up emulating MS with their multiplayer titles being day and date (which makes sense, as they have the longer tail vs a SP game that gets played a few times and player counts drop off).

Time is very important to people.
I'm just saying that publishers who have shareholder are only interested in our money, and will try to release a game when it makes most financial sense to them. For some games/publishers that is Day 1 on some platforms. For others its later. No matter what day it hits the shelves, I wouldn't expect that they are trying to respect our time.

For example, I got God of War Ragnarok on release day. Do I feel that they are respecting my time more than PC players?
Not at all. They couldn't care less about my time. They are only interested in my wallet.

There's that old saying that game companies are not our friends, so I don't take these decisions personally.


That said, people can certainly feel like they want to play a game at a certain point in time. And if they're unable to, do what feels right for them.
Aside from the many problematic PC ports recently, I think where I would have an issue is if it's something like a competetive game.
It's not ideal to jump into a fighting game 1 year later when most of my opponents have 1 year worth of experience over me.

And some games playing on launch with your friends to discuss it can have a net positive impact, but most of time it doesn't matter.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."