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Ryuu96 said:

Anyway, I think this is better to say publicly rather than hidden in a PM so that it educates others too.

Avoid using the word "Jap(s)" as it's a derogatory/offensive word in the same way as "P*ki" is, the latter is especially offensive in the UK. "Jap" has a long history of being used in derogatory ways, especially by Americans towards Japanese people after Pearl Harbour/WW2 in which it replaced "Nip", it was used to cause offense, it still holds negative connotations and it's not hard to just say "Japanese"

It should be obvious that I don't think of the Japanese people as lesser than, if what I said was looked at without bias.

I was specifically referring to WWII when they joined the Nazi's. The Nazi's which we all know were really bad, like the worst, ever.

Plenty of people call others Nazi's today, even if they clearly are not, and yet that doesn't seem to be a problem somehow.

Are we going to avoid using the word Nazi as well? We should at the very least, when being used to mark someone else as lesser than, don't you think?



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Ryuu96 said:
coolbeans said:

While the historical revisionism in Modern Warfare is gross, it's a big stretch to call the real Highway of Death an actual war crime.  Fundamentally, an armed invading army doesn't get the privilege of a bloodless tactical retreat.  Transplant the circumstances to the Russo-Ukraine War and see how you'd feel about a massive strike like that against Russia's army.

Fair enough, I should have done more research on it, I only just looked into it a few days ago and saw people labelling it as a war crime and I assumed the reason Call of Duty changed it to "Russians did it" was because it was deemed as a horrific act by the Americans and Call of Duty is very often "Fuck Yeah! America! We're the Heroes!" hence the change, Lol. That's my bad for not doing enough of my own research, I may look into it more later, either way, Call of Duty changing it to "Russians did it" is a bit...Lol.

Hey, I appreciate that too.  I'll admit: at the time of reviewing the reboot, I did have the Highway of Death mentally categorized as maybe a... "low-level war crime" or some other categorization.  As though they went too far in laying waste, but the intention wasn't morally wrong like Abu Ghraib, The My Lai Massacre, and so on.  From what I've gathered since then, I'd register it as a "War is Hell" tough call that was within the legal bounds of the time.  The top brass couldn't guarantee there were no potential civilians intermingled with Saddam's retreating forces, but they're also staring down at their enemy retreating with muntions & equipment that could potentially kill their soldiers down the line.

But what's wild about Modern Warfare is the narrative framing for its Highway of Death scene is much worse.  They couldn't even bother incorporating similar circumstances!  If I recall, they basically made it into a wholesale slaughter sequence.

Last edited by coolbeans - on 27 August 2024

EricHiggin said:
Ryuu96 said:

Anyway, I think this is better to say publicly rather than hidden in a PM so that it educates others too.

Avoid using the word "Jap(s)" as it's a derogatory/offensive word in the same way as "P*ki" is, the latter is especially offensive in the UK. "Jap" has a long history of being used in derogatory ways, especially by Americans towards Japanese people after Pearl Harbour/WW2 in which it replaced "Nip", it was used to cause offense, it still holds negative connotations and it's not hard to just say "Japanese"

It should be obvious that I don't think of the Japanese people as lesser than, if what I said was looked at without bias.

I was specifically referring to WWII when they joined the Nazi's. The Nazi's which we all know were really bad, like the worst, ever.

Plenty of people call others Nazi's today, even if they clearly are not, and yet that doesn't seem to be a problem somehow.

Are we going to avoid using the word Nazi as well? We should at the very least, when being used to mark someone else as lesser than, don't you think?

I was trying to educate yourself and others on why the word is bad, I did not make any claim as to why you used the word, if I thought that you used the word in an intentionally derogatory way then I would have just banned you. I do not believe that you used it in a derogatory way with the information I have but it's still an offensive word.

Just don't use the word, it's not that hard, I've explained why you shouldn't use the word already. I don't care if you will say it's short for Japanese or whatever, if you said "P**i" was short for Pakistani in the UK when using it to describe someone, you'd likely get a slap. These words heavily associated and used in derogatory manners and people don't like hearing them.

No, we won't avoid using the word Nazi because it's not the same thing at all.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 27 August 2024

the-pi-guy said:
EricHiggin said:

The people fighting woke culture also see it as they are tired of the 'let's push woke culture into everything' crescendo, so you can see the problem. One side seems to want woke to be part of everything, and the other, who originally was ok with woke being it's own thing,

No they weren't. You have it so incredibly backwards.

People have disowned or even killed their own children for being gay or trans or marrying someone from a different race. Many governments made it illegal to do those things. 

That is why people are pushing for awareness. It's okay to be gay. There's a place for you in this world if you're trans.

Because these people that "are okay with woke being it's own thing" have never been okay with "woke" being it's own thing. 

Alan Turing, a guy who is considered to be one of the fathers of computer science, who helped beat the Nazis, was criminalized for being gay. 

EricHiggin said:

It's not hard to see why either. If you're a fan of historical accuracy in games let's say, then that genre will no longer exist with a full blown woke culture. If you wanted to make a game about Native Americans before the white man came around, you couldn't, because it would lack the diversity and inclusion necessary. You would need to have whites, blacks, etc, in the game. You also couldn't just have deer and bison, you would need to have monkeys, tigers, koala's, etc. It's obvious that makes no sense, if you wanted to make the game as historically accurate as possible. So do those type of games become unacceptable, because getting rid of them would be making things less inclusive and less diverse.

This isn't what is happening either. You don't seem to understand what people are actually pushing for, and why. 

Most of the people you're complaining about, wouldn't be bothered by a game that was exclusively about Native Americans. 

The pushback is because the industry is so disproportionately straight white male protagonists. To the point where Sony was worried that having a woman for the main character was going to be detrimental to the game's success. Chances are absurdly high that 15 years ago, that a game about Native Americans you are suggesting would have been all white people for no apparent reason, without the pushback. 

A lot of the games that were criticized for losing historical accuracy were never historically accurate in the first place. Almost every Battlefield game was alternate history. I think out of like 11 games, only like 2 of them were intended to be accurate. The rest take place in completely made up scenarios. 

Besides that, people are frequently wrong about what was accurate. Women frequently helped out during times of war, and yet that frequently is a complaint point for people. 

EricHiggin said:

It is sad that it might be coming to the point of good games, or potential future great games bombing, simply because they have some woke in them, but when you have those backing woke making it clear that the push into everything isn't going to stop, then what do you expect from those who aren't ok with that?

People complaining about "woke" don't understand what they're complaining about.

For example, they constantly complain when they see pronouns.

You even used "they" as a pronoun in your post, and yet that wasn't an issue for you. And yet for some reason, people lose their crap when they see "they" used as a pronoun to talk about someone in a video game. 

We're talking about the more recent present. Woke wasn't a thing back then. We aren't talking about the times of Alan Turing.

I'm not aware of who is against lgbtq etc as individuals with rights in today's world, at least when it comes to the west.

-----

Most people? What about the minority? Shouldn't they be heard? Shouldn't they be respected? Even you left them out here or disregarded them.

So like in the movies as well right? Like movies about the East, where Tom Cruise or Keannu Reeves are the main character? Those movies aren't chalk full of white dudes, not even in the slightest. They do use white males as the main character, so if you wanted to argue that, sure, there certainly could've been more accurate portrayals of race when it came to the main character, but was that due to hate towards woman or Asians? If the movie studios thought that's what they needed to make the movie popular enough to make it worth it at that time, then it's kinda hard to blame them, or at the very least, the blame is there's then, not everybody's. You also have to ask who they were making the movie for and what did those people want to see at the time? People also didn't have social media back then to easily and instantly complain even if they wanted to.

I don't know of anyone who complains about making an accurate war game where woman are part of it where they were legitimately part of it. Where I've seen complaints is when the game is supposed to be accurate, and you have woman as a General or Captain etc, when that wasn't a thing. Those are the kind of cases where a game like that can still be widely accepted, as long as the developer or publisher is clear that the game is not based on historical accuracy. People don't like to feel like they are being tricked or lied to, even if not intended.

-----

Some people don't know and some are just on board to be jerks. That happens with everything, yes.

I'm not getting into pronouns or being offended because that's an infinite game of who is offended by what exactly and who's the bigger offender. I'm not going to try to bend you or anyone to my will by making you stop saying things you want to say and force you to say what I want you to about me. You can say whatever you want about me and I'll deal with it, offended or not.



Ryuu96 said:
EricHiggin said:

It should be obvious that I don't think of the Japanese people as lesser than, if what I said was looked at without bias.

I was specifically referring to WWII when they joined the Nazi's. The Nazi's which we all know were really bad, like the worst, ever.

Plenty of people call others Nazi's today, even if they clearly are not, and yet that doesn't seem to be a problem somehow.

Are we going to avoid using the word Nazi as well? We should at the very least, when being used to mark someone else as lesser than, don't you think?

I was trying to educate yourself and others on why the word is bad, I did not make any claim as to why you used the word, if I thought that you used the word in an intentionally derogatory way then I would have just banned you. I do not believe that you used it in a derogatory way with the information I have but it's still an offensive word.

Just don't use the word, it's not that hard, I've explained why you shouldn't use the word already. I don't care if you will say it's short for Japanese or whatever, if you said "P**i" was short for Pakistani in the UK when using it to describe someone, you'd likely get a slap. These words heavily associated and used in derogatory manners and people don't like hearing them.

No, we won't avoid using the word Nazi because it's not the same thing at all.

I'm not arguing about having to say Japanese. SONY on the other hand...

I don't see how calling a German a Nazi who isn't a Nazi isn't being derogatory as well. I'm part German, and do take offence to being called a Nazi when someone calls me that, even though I don't complain about it.

I think it would be a good thing for people to stop using the term Nazi to put people down and treat them as lesser than. I don't see a problem with using the term to talk about the Nazi's in the right context however, like back in WWII.

Just my two cents.



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EricHiggin said:
Ryuu96 said:

I was trying to educate yourself and others on why the word is bad, I did not make any claim as to why you used the word, if I thought that you used the word in an intentionally derogatory way then I would have just banned you. I do not believe that you used it in a derogatory way with the information I have but it's still an offensive word.

Just don't use the word, it's not that hard, I've explained why you shouldn't use the word already. I don't care if you will say it's short for Japanese or whatever, if you said "P**i" was short for Pakistani in the UK when using it to describe someone, you'd likely get a slap. These words heavily associated and used in derogatory manners and people don't like hearing them.

No, we won't avoid using the word Nazi because it's not the same thing at all.

I'm not arguing about having to say Japanese. SONY on the other hand...

I don't see how calling a German a Nazi who isn't a Nazi isn't being derogatory as well. I'm part German, and do take offence to being called a Nazi when someone calls me that, even though I don't complain about it.

I think it would be a good thing for people to stop using the term Nazi to put people down and treat them as lesser than. I don't see a problem with using the term to talk about the Nazi's in the right context however, like back in WWII.

Just my two cents.

Labelling all Germans as Nazis is bad, yes.

If I said about my German neighbour "He's a Nazi" for no reason other than him being German, I'd be a xenophobe.

Like using "Japs" to describe Japanese people is considered offensive or using "P**is" to describe Pakistani people.

As long as we're clear not to use it anymore then no harm is done, I didn't think you used it in a derogatory manner.



Runa216 said:
EricHiggin said:

You need to stop jumping to conclusions.

Games are better when they are more inclusive. Complaining about that says so much about you as a person that honestly I'm not even offended that you didn't read my rant because [insert overplayed joke about conservatives not being educated here]. 

Based on the other responses you're getting from others who are far more level-headed than I am should tell you just how far off the mark you actually are. This crusade against decency is just so weird, dude. 

Games are typically best when they're made the way the devs want to make them without being pressured by anything. People or money. Just a reasonable if not ambitious goal and smart guidelines on how to get there.

Should teachers be renamed to crusaders?

the-pi-guy (below) said a game exclusively about Native Americans wouldn't be a problem for most people who stand behind woke. Are they far more level headed than you? Who's off the mark?

the-pi-guy said:
EricHiggin said:

It's not hard to see why either. If you're a fan of historical accuracy in games let's say, then that genre will no longer exist with a full blown woke culture. If you wanted to make a game about Native Americans before the white man came around, you couldn't, because it would lack the diversity and inclusion necessary. You would need to have whites, blacks, etc, in the game. You also couldn't just have deer and bison, you would need to have monkeys, tigers, koala's, etc. It's obvious that makes no sense, if you wanted to make the game as historically accurate as possible. So do those type of games become unacceptable, because getting rid of them would be making things less inclusive and less diverse.

This isn't what is happening either. You don't seem to understand what people are actually pushing for, and why. 

Most of the people you're complaining about, wouldn't be bothered by a game that was exclusively about Native Americans. 

The pushback is because the industry is so disproportionately straight white male protagonists. To the point where Sony was worried that having a woman for the main character was going to be detrimental to the game's success. Chances are absurdly high that 15 years ago, that a game about Native Americans you are suggesting would have been all white people for no apparent reason, without the pushback. 

Does Runa216 (above) understand? They seem to disagree with you on inclusivity and exclusivity when it comes to worthy games.



EricHiggin said:

We're talking about the more recent present. Woke wasn't a thing back then.

I'm not aware of who is against lgbtq etc as individuals with rights in today's world, at least when it comes to the west.

1.) The Alan Turing thing was just an example of the government being used. I wasn't saying it was a recent example.

2.) Everything else still happens today. The entire reason the word "woke" is trying to be used as an insult is because certain people want to deprive LGBT groups and black people and women of their rights and representation.

EricHiggin said:

Most people? What about the minority? Shouldn't they be heard? Shouldn't they be respected? Even you left them out here or disregarded them.

People are not monoliths. They don't all agree or feel the same things. 

Quite the opposite, I acknowledged that people outside of that group exist. 

EricHiggin said:

I don't know of anyone who complains about making an accurate war game where woman are part of it where they were legitimately part of it. Where I've seen complaints is when the game is supposed to be accurate, and you have woman as a General or Captain etc, when that wasn't a thing. Those are the kind of cases where a game like that can still be widely accepted, as long as the developer or publisher is clear that the game is not based on historical accuracy. People don't like to feel like they are being tricked or lied to, even if not intended.

What games are supposed to be accurate?

EricHiggin said:

Some people don't know and some are just on board to be jerks. That happens with everything, yes.

I'm not getting into pronouns or being offended because that's an infinite game of who is offended by what exactly and who's the bigger offender. I'm not going to try to bend you or anyone to my will by making you stop saying things you want to say and force you to say what I want you to about me. You can say whatever you want about me and I'll deal with it, offended or not.

The problem is not people being offended or not.

The problem is people are being jerks and they're hiding behind "I'm not the one being pushy"

EricHiggin said:

Games are typically best when they're made the way the devs want to make them without being pressured by anything. People or money. Just a reasonable if not ambitious goal and smart guidelines on how to get there.

Should teachers be renamed to crusaders?

the-pi-guy (below) said a game exclusively about Native Americans wouldn't be a problem for most people who stand behind woke. Are they far more level headed than you? Who's off the mark?

Does Runa216 (above) understand? They seem to disagree with you on inclusivity and exclusivity when it comes to worthy games.

I don't know what part you think is disagreeing with Runa.



I know what Ryuu is talking about. SEGA forums a big chunk of them are people living in the UK. That P word esp in the mid-2000s they used a lot.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Kyuu said:

https://x.com/Genki_JPN/status/1828318867766247871

Another (huge) price hike! This generation is a disaster.

Everything is getting more expensive everywhere. So sadly not a surprise.

I'm just glad I bought my PS5 a year ago. I'm likely gonna get the PS5 Pro when GTAVI comes out. (Unless I get lucky and get it when it comes out supposedly later this year).

Though I spent so much this year (and still am , baby supplies are so damn expensive and tally up lol).

I'm also planning to get the next Nintendo system day 1 (assuming b/c is there) and I'm planning to get a new gaming Desktop as well. (The next Xbox as well but that might be sometime further down the line since my series X was purchased less than a year ago).