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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Controversial character design changes in game remakes

mZuzek on 08 December 2022
Raven said:
DroidKnight said:

More customization options sounds like a good option.  Instead of imposing character designs on the masses, allow settings to accommodate everyone's preferences.  Win win.

This is exactly the type of comment I was referring to in my last post. Seeing a deliberate choice a developer made as some kind of conspiratorial "imposition onto the masses" rather than a deliberate and free choice made by the artist/developer. If a simple design choice is all people need to call something an imposition, then I guess every choice any developer makes is an imposition and therefore the point is moot because that's just how the industry works isn't it?

The best game ever made is your computer's notepad. Because you can program anything into it, so it allows you to completely customize the experience to your liking.



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mZuzek on 08 December 2022
DroidKnight said:
Chrkeller said:

This is irrelevant.  Lara Craft climbing mountains in daisy duke shorts just doesn't fit the atmosphere.  Jill fighting Nemesis in a tube, top, skirt and **** me boots doesn't fit either.  It is about fitting the atmosphere.  Look at Returnal....  she is wearing a space suit, you know because she is in space.  Samus wears a space suit, again this makes sense.  

More customization options sounds like a good option.  Instead of imposing character designs on the masses, allow settings to accommodate everyone's preferences.  Win win.

Imagine if they made movies with this mindset.

Cinemas in 1986 would be like
Aliens (Standard Edition) - $3.80
Aliens (Big Boobies Edition) - $4.80
Aliens (Sigourney Weaver Is Naked Edition) - $5.99



haxxiy on 08 December 2022
DroidKnight said:
Chrkeller said:

I always found this conversation intentionally over complicated. Characters should fit the game. If somebody is going into battle a string bikini is childish nonsense. It just doesn't fit the game. Joan of Arc didn't fight half naked, I'm guessing she wore armor.

I'm guessing she didn't battle imaginary creatures in imaginary worlds either.

People won't care if your character uses magic that breaks the laws of physics in a thousand different ways. It's when contrivances started to feel forced onto the story by the writer (say, because he's a horny mofo, or wants to appeal to one) that's where the problem resides.

Of course, though, different people will have different thresholds for what they're willing to accept in a fictional work...



 

 

 

 

 

Chrkeller on 08 December 2022
Mandalore76 said:
Chrkeller said:

This is irrelevant.  Lara Craft climbing mountains in daisy duke shorts just doesn't fit the atmosphere.  Jill fighting Nemesis in a tube, top, skirt and **** me boots doesn't fit either.  It is about fitting the atmosphere.  Look at Returnal....  she is wearing a space suit, you know because she is in space.  Samus wears a space suit, again this makes sense.  

I am aware of, but haven't played the Tomb Raider games.  I would counter that the environment on the mountain should be the determining factor.  Like, if she is on Mount Everest, than yeah, she should be dressed appropriately.  But, if the climate on the mountain is warm, who is to say that light attire doesn't fit "the atmosphere"?

Lara Croft, having played the games, runs around in very cold environments.  

Sorry, but nothing about her attire fits the environment.  It is just stupid.  



Mandalore76 on 08 December 2022
Chrkeller said:

I always found this conversation intentionally over complicated. Characters should fit the game. If somebody is going into battle a string bikini is childish nonsense. It just doesn't fit the game. Joan of Arc didn't fight half naked, I'm guessing she wore armor.

haxxiy said:
DroidKnight said:

I'm guessing she didn't battle imaginary creatures in imaginary worlds either.

People won't care if your character uses magic that breaks the laws of physics in a thousand different ways. It's when contrivances started to feel forced onto the story by the writer (say, because he's a horny mofo, or wants to appeal to one) that's where the problem resides.

Of course, though, different people will have different thresholds for what they're willing to accept in a fictional work...

If we're talking about specific depictions of Joan of Arc in games, the ones I've played (Fate Extella, Bladestorm) have been mostly tasteful.

If we're talking about this specific depiction from Bladestorm Nightmare though:

Then that is story related, because it's Joan of Arc after being corrupted by an evil entity.  It doesn't feel like a "forced contrivance" to believe that such an entity would present its possession of Joan of Arc in such a way to demoralize her own spirit and that of her comrades.

Now, if we're just talking about fighting while scantily clad in general being "childish nonsense", that's also not historically accurate.  There were people, tribes, mercenaries, what have you, who fought wearing very little or even completely naked as a show of confidence to give them an additional mental edge over their opponents.  There are plenty of women living today who say that "sexy" attire makes them feel more confident and empowered.  It's not the black and white concept some of you are making out to be.



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Zkuq on 08 December 2022

Strictly speaking not a remake but a remaster instead, but I think Assassin's Creed II didn't quite nail it:

I haven't played a lot of remakes though, so I'm not properly qualified to answer. Still, respecting the source material and keeping true to it is what I like to see, so anything that deviates too greatly from the (spirit of the) original is either bad or controversial to me. The same goes for sequels and such too (if you want drastically different designs in sequels, feel free to create new characters instead).



shikamaru317 on 08 December 2022
Zkuq said:

Strictly speaking not a remake but a remaster instead, but I think Assassin's Creed II didn't quite nail it:

I haven't played a lot of remakes though, so I'm not properly qualified to answer. Still, respecting the source material and keeping true to it is what I like to see, so anything that deviates too greatly from the (spirit of the) original is either bad or controversial to me. The same goes for sequels and such too (if you want drastically different designs in sequels, feel free to create new characters instead).

That must be a bug, right? xD



Zkuq on 08 December 2022
shikamaru317 said:
Zkuq said:

Strictly speaking not a remake but a remaster instead, but I think Assassin's Creed II didn't quite nail it:

I haven't played a lot of remakes though, so I'm not properly qualified to answer. Still, respecting the source material and keeping true to it is what I like to see, so anything that deviates too greatly from the (spirit of the) original is either bad or controversial to me. The same goes for sequels and such too (if you want drastically different designs in sequels, feel free to create new characters instead).

That must be a bug, right? xD

Gotta be. I think it was fixed, but I don't have any hands-on experience with the remaster either, so I'm not at all sure. So, uh, I suppose that kind of misses the point of this thread, but I still couldn't resist the temptation to bring it up.



Mandalore76 on 08 December 2022
Chrkeller said:
Mandalore76 said:

I am aware of, but haven't played the Tomb Raider games.  I would counter that the environment on the mountain should be the determining factor.  Like, if she is on Mount Everest, than yeah, she should be dressed appropriately.  But, if the climate on the mountain is warm, who is to say that light attire doesn't fit "the atmosphere"?

Lara Croft, having played the games, runs around in very cold environments.  

Sorry, but nothing about her attire fits the environment.  It is just stupid.  

As I said, I haven't played any of the Tomb Raider games.  I do agree that in your example, the environment and attire do not match.  While in this one, there is no conflict.

To my knowledge, her outfits got more varied from Tomb Raider II on.  It could well have been that they didn't have the time or resources to animate multiple attired character models when the franchise first started.  But, my knowledge of the games and development process is limited.  I did read that the first iteration was supposed to be a male character based off Indiana Jones, and then shifted to a female lead inspired by Tank Girl.



Chrkeller on 08 December 2022
Mandalore76 said:
Chrkeller said:

Lara Croft, having played the games, runs around in very cold environments.  

Sorry, but nothing about her attire fits the environment.  It is just stupid.  

As I said, I haven't played any of the Tomb Raider games.  I do agree that in your example, the environment and attire do not match.  While in this one, there is no conflict.

To my knowledge, her outfits got more varied from Tomb Raider II on.  It could well have been that they didn't have the time or resources to animate multiple attired character models when the franchise first started.  But, my knowledge of the games and development process is limited.  I did read that the first iteration was supposed to be a male character based off Indiana Jones, and then shifted to a female lead inspired by Tank Girl.

TR as a franchise has gotten better and demonstrates the ability to improve characters.  Reboot and Rise are excellent games with good characters.

The resident evil remakes are also really well done.