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Forums - Politics Discussion - The US is ranked as a 'Flawed Democracy', what needs to change?

Ashadelo said:

When you have people like Biden in power no one takes the US seriously anymore. You have no idea how many mock videos I see on 微博,抖音,微信 etc making him out to be an absolute airhead. Yes, I know they are all government funded and run, but still. His whole party is a joke on the world stage, just look at the US recent relationship with Saudi Arabia shows the world that no one takes the US seriously anymore.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/06/10/americas-image-abroad-rebounds-with-transition-from-trump-to-biden/

Approval has softened since but the difference from Trump to Biden is still night and day when you look at actual data instead of anecdotes.



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Eagle367 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Yes, it is. Democracy is letting people vote, there shouldn't be any restrictions on who they can vote for. Also, you never addressed the issue of who exactly gets to determine who's eligible or not. Plenty of incredibly authoritarian countries hold elections where there are no eligible opponents because they won't allow them to run for election, that's definitely not democratic.

I did address it. Having criteria for who gets to run. Countries have them already. Like you wouldn't let a treasonous traitor run right? What about someone who wants another country to take over yours? What you said describes why these people need to be stopped because they can win one legitimate election and then slowly chip away and destroy democracy. That's what Orban did, Modhi is doing it, erdogan did it, Trump wanted to do it, Putin did it. Your democracy doesn't survive if you have no protections against anti democratic agents.

Answer this question, should a monarchist be allowed to run in an election when they promise to destroy the democracy that will give them power and institute themselves as supreme leader?

Yeah, that's exactly how China and russia run their elections. They don't let those that they consider "treasonous traitors" run. I'm not sure copying those countries should be considered a good thing for democratic nations...

Yes, the monarchist should be allowed to run. I people vote for them then them winning is democratic. A lot of people are stupid and vote against their own interests, but part of democracy is still allowing those people to vote.



JackHandy said:

It's not a flawed democracy, it's a flawed republic. But even so, it's the flaws that make it what it is and allow it to change and grow and bend its way along. So I don't think anything needs to change. There has always been periods of social and political upheaval in the US. We're in one right now. Soon, it'll be over and things will carry on as usual.

What do you think the difference is?

democracy (countable and uncountable, plural democracies)

(uncountable) Rule by the people, especially as a form of government; either directly or through elected representatives (representative democracy).

(countable, government) A government under the direct or representative rule of the people of its jurisdiction.

republic (plural republics)

A state where sovereignty rests with the people or their representatives, rather than with a monarch or emperor; a country with no monarchy. The United States is a republic; the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a constitutional monarchy.

The US is both a democracy and a republic. You can be a democracy without being a republic, eg. the UK. But every republic is a democracy.

Last edited by Ka-pi96 - on 27 October 2022

Abolish private funding of election campaigns
Institute strict limits on lobbying (no gifts, meals, or other favors of any kind for candidates or elected officials)
Abolish single-member House districts and implement proportional representation
Make ranked-choice voting the standard
Abolish the Electoral College
Reform or abolish the Senate
Term limits for SCOTUS judges


The first four of these could be implemented by federal legislation. However, the last three would require constitutional amendments to implement, so they're unlikely to ever happen the way our politics currently are, but they should still be goals to work toward.

JackHandy said:

It's not a flawed democracy, it's a flawed republic. But even so, it's the flaws that make it what it is and allow it to change and grow and bend its way along. So I don't think anything needs to change. There has always been periods of social and political upheaval in the US. We're in one right now. Soon, it'll be over and things will carry on as usual.

As others have pointed out, the thing that makes a nation a republic is that its head of state is a president or some other similar elected official rather than a monarch. In fact, anti-monarchism is the defining characteristic of republicanism. But being a republic doesn't guarantee a nation is a democracy, i.e., a nation where representatives in government are chosen by the people through free and fair elections ("democracy" in modern parlance usually being shorthand for "representative democracy"). Plenty of republics are authoritarian regimes, while some democracies still have monarchs.

Here's a handy visual guide:

Aside from nations where the current government has no legitimate constitutional basis (i.e., military juntas and transitional governments), nearly every country on Earth can be fit into one of the four quadrants.

Last edited by Shadow1980 - on 28 October 2022

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Ashadelo said:

When you have people like Biden in power no one takes the US seriously anymore. You have no idea how many mock videos I see on 微博,抖音,微信 etc making him out to be an absolute airhead. Yes, I know they are all government funded and run, but still. His whole party is a joke on the world stage, just look at the US recent relationship with Saudi Arabia shows the world that no one takes the US seriously anymore.

The USA can cripple the entire Saudi and Chinese economy if they pass some laws and make Europe obey them too. The Uyghur act and European force labour act will hurt the Chinese economy big time. If they also will get their shit together on the chip end together with EU. The Chinese economy will go down rather fast. It's stupid to not take seriously the 2 places on earth where all upcoming economies will depend on to make money.

Same with oil if US will become the primary delivery of fossil fuels to Europe, it will hurt the OPEC countries by a lot. Another non exploitative act from the USA and EU could easily make that happen. The USA is still by far the most powerful country economically, technologically and military, only rivaled on some aspects by the EU, mostly tech because the EU economy is way smaller and will face a big crisis because cheap energy is something of the past for the coming decade. Not taking the US serious is about as dumb as you can get on the world stage.

Last edited by Qwark - on 27 October 2022

Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Ka-pi96 said:

But every republic is a democracy.

This part isn't quite true. A state can be a "public thing" without it being democratic. There are plenty of non-democratic republics in history and the current world. 



Ashadelo said:

When you have people like Biden in power no one takes the US seriously anymore. You have no idea how many mock videos I see on 微博,抖音,微信 etc making him out to be an absolute airhead. Yes, I know they are all government funded and run, but still. His whole party is a joke on the world stage, just look at the US recent relationship with Saudi Arabia shows the world that no one takes the US seriously anymore.

Teasing trump was an international passtime among literally every nation in the world. Including the US. 

Around the world, people don't like the US in general, Biden is no different. 



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bdbdbd said:
Eagle367 said:

I did address it. Having criteria for who gets to run. Countries have them already. Like you wouldn't let a treasonous traitor run right? What about someone who wants another country to take over yours? What you said describes why these people need to be stopped because they can win one legitimate election and then slowly chip away and destroy democracy. That's what Orban did, Modhi is doing it, erdogan did it, Trump wanted to do it, Putin did it. Your democracy doesn't survive if you have no protections against anti democratic agents.

Answer this question, should a monarchist be allowed to run in an election when they promise to destroy the democracy that will give them power and institute themselves as supreme leader?

Of course they should. If the monarchist gets elected, it's the people's will. 

Then you don't really like democracy and want it to fall. Let's speedrun the end of democracy. Especially since people lie about their intentions and voters don't know that they are voting for a monarchist. A democracy that doesn't protect itself is a short democracy. 



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Chrkeller said:
RolStoppable said:

Conservatives should make the effort to distance themselves from the far-right instead of tolerating or even embracing them. That would be a good start to cut down on a lot of the American bullshit.

Same is true with liberals and the far left.  

The middle doesn't exist anymore.  

I don't know about that. I don't see the democrats who are in charge pushing far-left policies. The republicans, however, did go for far-right policies when Trump was president, and since then the republican party has not only stayed on this course, but even doubled down on it.

It's not that the middle doesn't exist anymore in the USA, rather it's that the middle has been absorbed by the democratic party. Nowadays the republicans are the party for racists and people who don't mind to associate themselves with racists.

You have to keep in mind, that from the European perspective with its much broader spread of the political spectrum due to much more than two political parties in each country, the democrats in the USA qualify as a party with conservative policies, so they are on the right side of the center. That's why there's no serious threat that the far-left could get major influence in American politics and why your post is misguided at best.



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A republic is a form of democracy people. It's just how the democracy is structured. US is both a republic and a democracy.



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