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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

crissindahouse on 17 May 2023
Ryuu96 said:
crissindahouse said:

Bakhmut is pretty much lost now. Russia advanced in the city and there's not really much left while Ukraine advanced around the city. Would be nice to encircle it but I think if Ukraine would advance too much Russians would leave early enough. Would be nice to have the situation in which Ukraine was in Mariupol last year to take some thousand soldiers hostage but those Wagner/Russian soldiers in Bakhmut have too many options not to get in such a situation.

Lost in the sense that the city is basically rubble now, yeah.

If Ukraine does encircle the city though and forces Russia out of it, that would be a massive win, it would mean that Russia spent almost a year, wasted tens of thousands of lives, for a city which they never even managed to fully take, that'd be a serious morale blow.

And despite Wagner having like "90%" of the city or w/e, they still don't control it and still it's being heavily contested, they can't consolidate their gains on Bakhmut, it was all a waste in the end for Wagner, they would have achieved nothing.

Ukraine won't make Bakhmut their main target, likely somewhere in the North or South instead but they're probably happy to use Bakhmut to cause Russia to pull troops from elsewhere and foolishly still focus on this objective.

The problem I see is that Russia can also withdraw some troops from Bakhmut itself if they have taken it completely. They can strengthen their flanks more then. Right now they are still in the "let's waste hundreds of soldiers a day for a few buildings more" mode but they will lose less of them if they don't have buildings (or rubble) left to take.

Russia trying so hard to take this city was the best which could happen to Ukraine (well, Russia's equipment losses in Vuhledar were maybe even better lol). Just defending what's left will be easier I guess. Sure, if Ukraine can manage to encircle the city to get the city back even without capturing Russians it would be a big L for Russia but I guess encircling it when it's 100% in Russia's hands will cost more Ukrainians lives as if Ukraine would be still in the city. 

But I'm not a military strategist. I just think it will help Russia a little bit to occupy 100% of what's left of Bakhmut and not only 95% or whatever. 



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LurkerJ on 17 May 2023

Erdogan is on course to win another election, as if Putin needed more allies to cling to power. A thoroughly disappointing result.



Ryuu96 on 17 May 2023
LurkerJ said:

Erdogan is on course to win another election, as if Putin needed more allies to cling to power. A thoroughly disappointing result.

Yup. He has won for sure, very disappointing.

However, I wouldn't call Erdogan an ally of Putin, their relationship is way more complicated than that. Erdogan is happy to screw over Putin just as much as he's happy to screw over the West. Erdogan closed the Black Sea to Russia's ships, Turkey shot down a Russian jet once and they have proxy fights against each other in other lands by backing rival factions.

As an example, Turkey and Russia back rival factions in Syria. Russia supports the PKK which Turkey designates as a terrorist group. Then of course, Turkey has been a good ally at supplying Ukraine with deadly drones to kill Russians. Erdogan is just a slimy MF who does whatever benefits him most, he has no allegiances or true friendships, Imo, that dude would backstab Europe just as equally as Russia.

One minute he's shaking hands with Putin, laughing and joking, next minute Turkey is killing Russian backed factions or supplying Ukraine equipment to kill Russians, then bitching at Europe for whatever reason he's upset with us now then having a moan at Sweden and threatening Greece (cause he's a fucking dick, Lol).

I don't think we need to be worried about Erdogan in relation to Ukraine but it would have been nice to see him gone because he's a massive dick either way, a horrible man and his opponent was expressing desire to improve relations with Europe and support Sweden's application for NATO and be even harsher on Russia than Turkey is currently being.

Also...Orban without Erdogan would have been on his own, that little coward wouldn't continue being an issue without Turkey backing him up. Sucks...Ukraine will be fine but we'll have to find other ways to pressure Erdogan into doing stuff such as allowing Sweden into NATO but that likely means giving into shitty demands of Erdogan and supplying a monster with military equipment.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 17 May 2023

Ryuu96 on 17 May 2023


Ryuu96 on 17 May 2023


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Ryuu96 on 17 May 2023


CaptainExplosion on 17 May 2023
crissindahouse said:
Ryuu96 said:

Lost in the sense that the city is basically rubble now, yeah.

If Ukraine does encircle the city though and forces Russia out of it, that would be a massive win, it would mean that Russia spent almost a year, wasted tens of thousands of lives, for a city which they never even managed to fully take, that'd be a serious morale blow.

And despite Wagner having like "90%" of the city or w/e, they still don't control it and still it's being heavily contested, they can't consolidate their gains on Bakhmut, it was all a waste in the end for Wagner, they would have achieved nothing.

Ukraine won't make Bakhmut their main target, likely somewhere in the North or South instead but they're probably happy to use Bakhmut to cause Russia to pull troops from elsewhere and foolishly still focus on this objective.

The problem I see is that Russia can also withdraw some troops from Bakhmut itself if they have taken it completely. They can strengthen their flanks more then. Right now they are still in the "let's waste hundreds of soldiers a day for a few buildings more" mode but they will lose less of them if they don't have buildings (or rubble) left to take.

Russia trying so hard to take this city was the best which could happen to Ukraine (well, Russia's equipment losses in Vuhledar were maybe even better lol). Just defending what's left will be easier I guess. Sure, if Ukraine can manage to encircle the city to get the city back even without capturing Russians it would be a big L for Russia but I guess encircling it when it's 100% in Russia's hands will cost more Ukrainians lives as if Ukraine would be still in the city. 

But I'm not a military strategist. I just think it will help Russia a little bit to occupy 100% of what's left of Bakhmut and not only 95% or whatever. 

Well if that's the case then let's hope Russia keeps up with their brute stupidity regarding Bakhmut. It'd reduce their troop numbers enough that Ukraine would have an even better chance of driving those genocidal pigs in migs out.



Ryuu96 on 18 May 2023



Ryuu96 on 18 May 2023



Ryuu96 on 18 May 2023

Russia is shook up by those Patriots huh, desperately trying to hunt them down.