Step one complete. I moved FS2020 packages folder (164 GB) to my hdd. Surprise, no noticeable difference in startup time. I guess the main delay is CPU and downloading / checking with the server. Also launching a flight is still about a minute, no noticeable change.

Now trying to figure out how to move FH5. However when I started the XBox app it started downloading a 16GB update for FH5. I guess I'll wait for that to finish first. [Move] button is greyed out atm in Apps, probably because it started updating.

It took a while to copy 164GB as everything had to go through MSMpEng.exe. I should have excluded that path first from windows defender. At least all files have been checked for viruses again!

Already done have a dozen sport mode races in GT Sport while swapping two folders on my laptop lol.

Move complete. Much faster loading now, worth the trouble. Also much less pop up / terrain morphing and more traffic on the road. I guess I had streaming issues from HDD. Do not install this game to HDD!

I'm really not sure that this is true.

I got the Horizon superstar designation while only doing the big ticket expedition/showcase/gauntlet events and a couple of barn finds. I suppose I do have VIP status but i'm not sure that effects accolades progression. 

Bruh, by that token, literally any part of the game you didn't play is "bloat" lol... Come on, man, just let people have their options

But also, now you're asking them to have a full character creation suite when they are already doing more than literally any other racing game does for your driver.  And actualyyyy, you missed out on FH4 if you wanted "hang out" stuff: FH4 had actual car meets.  I barely used it, but it was actually quite a neat idea to be able to see each other's car in a (small) parking lot hahaha

I'm pretty sure the density is based off graphics settings, but then again I've been maxing games out for so long or just playing them on consoles that I'm not entirely sure why you're having low traffic offline.  I'd say check your graphics settings or settings in general, there might be a traffic density setting.

As for the AI, it DOES have questionable power levels, BUT I'll also say that this goes into custom modding the car versus auto upgrading.  If you auto upgrade and say, it adds better brakes and a spoiler, that obviously makes you better at slowing down and taking corners.  Auto-upgrade is a general sweep, and I've always custom modded for things I knew would give me an advantage.  For sprint races with minimal sharp corners, I'd upgrade mostly power and my Drivatars are on Highly Skilled and Expert (depending on the race, I find dirt races on Expert to be too sweaty) and would pull them on straightaways while they would take the corners better but not quite make up the difference.  This is that subtle "car enthusiast" stuff I enjoy so much lol

I'm glad you're giving it a fair shakedown, though!  I never fault people for properly trying a game out even if they end up not enjoying it after all.  Sometimes, well like a video I'm about to post: sometimes you don't know what you're in for in a game until you simply put the time in.

dirt racing just isn't skill based, its all about how lucky you hit a certain bump and resulting in how fucked you are

It's amazing how loading times change the perception of a game. I'm loving it a lot more now it's on my SSD, no more alt-tab killing time with something else in between the 2 to 3 minute races. Now it has flow! One race to the next. I also use one of the recommended cars now (Ford escort) which balances out the AI much better with a much nicer looking variety of cars as well. (A class). That Corvette Stingray can rest at the bottom of a Caldera :)

My issue with the bloat was, it's 109 GB, didn't fit on my SSD, so installed it on HDD which led to a poor experience. Hence being annoyed with all the customization options. Odd though that FS2020 still loads pretty much the same from HDD, yet for FH5 the difference is night and day. (3 minute load to main screen in FS2020 from SSD is just poor)

I don't see any settings for traffic density, I have no idea what that's based on. When I started the game there were tons of cars on the road, all drivatars I think. Now I see maybe a dozen NPC cars at most while driving to the next race. Very empty. I'll turn head to head requests back on, maybe that brings the traffic back.

No traffic at all now and no other players either. No clue. Oh well, races have cars :)

This made me laugh, but it's also only true at first.  Rally/dirt racing is like anything else: you have to learn the track.  In the case of rally racing, it's more learning the terrain than the corners and is why there are rarely racecar drivers that do both.  The mindsets are completely different, the responses to vehicle physics are completely different, and the only real thing in common is getting there the fastest.  It doesn't mean a rally racer can't learn circuit racing, or that a circuit racer can't learn rally, but they are drastically different in real life execution because of what you described.  This is why rally racers have a co-pilot, too, because the terrain is your real challenge moreso than the corners.

If I had to describe it at its core, rally racing is more about predicting what your car will do and anticipating it, and circuit racing is more on-the-fly response to pushing a vehicle to its very limit.  Example: when you hit a bump and go airborne in rally racing, you literally have ZERO control over the vehicle until it lands, so you try to adjust your throttle and steering position for the landing; on a circuit, you try to take the corner as fast as possible, but human error may cause you to slightly push the throttle a smidge hard and your rear end starts to come loose, but if you have the response time of a cat, you quickly counter-steer and correct to maintain control of the vehicle at its limit of traction.

I hope that helps you do more dirt racing lol

I'm not arguing the size of the game, just that "bloat" isn't really "bloat" just because you don't like, want, or use whatever it may be lol... By that token, all the sides quests in games are "bloat" for anyone that doesn't do those.  I see "bloat" as things that literally do not factor into or serve the game whatsoever which is almost non-existent in gaming, but VERY existent in PCs you buy pre-built from large companies (which is why I build my own!).  Bloat, meaning stupid software that does more to slow down my PC for the sake of some company to get my information and feed me ads or sell me things lmao...

I guess my definition of "bloat" is closer to adware or spyware stuff, but yea, I don't really think a bunch of outfits really had that much impact on the game size lol

That's the definition of bloatware lol. And yep, all the repetitive side quests are bloat just to make the game longer. All the clothing options do slow down loading, use more memory and more disk space. Bloat.

Anyway it's not that much in actual size (360MB) but it is tons of small files, the bane of HDD usage. I guess the skies aren't dynamic as there is a 10.5 GB directory with HDR skies. 14.3 GB in cars, 2.8 GB in cinematics, the map is by far the largest at 53GB, the important stuff :)

It's a fun driving game now it doesn't take minutes to load after every race. A class handles the best imo, S class feels very off, too twitchy / arcady and the AI doesn't know what to do with the fastest cars. The AI isn't really racing anyway, just moving cars along a path. They are very much on rails, but I'm used to racing real humans so any AI is going to feel poor. They could pay a bit more attention to where you are though, but oh well. Dirt roads feel very satisfying to slide around, I actually like them more than the paved roads in FH5.

Traffic is a mystery. I completed all the road racing events, now on to street racing and in those races there is NPC traffic to avoid. But only in the races. Back on the open map there is no one, nothing. I very rarely see another player which is usually a stopped ghosted car (I guess in the menus). I only saw a driving human twice last night. Very pretty open world yet completely empty (bar the odd animal and spectators here and there). It must be a bug as other people do get traffic on the map, very weird.

Stuff unlocks fast and you indeed don't need to do the story missions, just the expeditions to unlock the next type of races. I wonder where the speed cameras are though? I only have one speed camera, one speed trap, one danger sign etc on the map. The speed traps are fun challenges. In FH4 more would pop up after you did them, yet I still only have the one speed trap from the start.

Btw do you get to fly a plane? It's listed as Racing & flying in the store!
(Oh I guess that's the category MS puts it under, only one flying game, had to go somewhere lol)

I love how each post i read in your voice now Zyro :)

I 'finished' the game, or rather don't feel like playing any more of it. 17+ hours driving time was my limit with FH5, 3 hour less than FH4.

I made it to level 79 (whatever that means), completed all road, street and dirt races, half of the cross country (grew bored of that rather quickly). The long races were nice, yet nothing really stood out as bad or excellent. No favorites, nothing to dislike either.

The good points:
- Amazing graphics, crash into a tree and you'll sit there staring at the sunlight bouncing off the highly detailed tree bark.
- Great weather effects (which were sadly very much underused during my play time)
- Great map with nicely varied locations, a joy to explore.
- Great sound, as @ZyroXZ2 said, turn off the radio to fully enjoy the car audio soundscape.
- Sense of speed is fully there, when you go fast, it feels like you're going fast.

The bad points:
- Handling is a bit over easy as well as twitchy. With twitchy I mean, I could not get it to gently steer around a high speed corner. I tried different settings for sensitivity but a small movement of the analog stick already has a big reaction. Thus I ended up 'tap' 'tap' 'tapping' along high speed bends, instead of a steady steering input.
- AI or lack of I in AI. They break the laws of physics, stick to their path, don't really interact with you, it's the worst yet in the series.
- Still no rear view mirror in bumper cam (and others). You need one for racing, ridiculous it's still not there.
- No traffic on the PC. The odd thing is when I lost my internet connection, traffic suddenly appeared everywhere, including cars to race. Then as my internet came back, the map was empty again.
- Stability issues, even though it runs much better from SSD, I still get occasional 1 second long freezes. Not often, maybe related to server communication as the game also froze for a bit when I lost my connection.

As a racing game I would give it a 6, there's very little draw to keep going based on the racing.
As an open world driving game an 8 in its current state, 9 if the traffic and connectivity issues are fixed.
So for now, overall a 7 (I would score FH1 8, FH2 9, skipped FH3, FH4 8 FH5 7) FH2 is still my favorite in the series.

Playing FH5 made me long for a new PGR for street racing. A new DriveClub for racing hyper cars over rural roads. A new Burnout for arcade madness with actual damage. A new Motorstorm for off-road mayhem. A new Rallisport Challenge for arcade dirt road racing on long tracks. FH5 gives you a bit of all that, but doesn't really excel at anything. FH5 is like an all you can eat buffet. There's nothing particularly excellent, but you won't leave hungry.

Before I uninstall and move on, I'm gonna do the The Colossus one more time with some nice beats on and the engine sounds turned up!

My BF told me you should stick with games from Sony and on play station. He said you never complain about anything on PS or from Sony so it must be just PC and MS games that give you problems all the time.

He said you can never enjoy a game on PC even more so if its from MS such as flight sim, he said even when you love that game you still have to complain about it all the time.

He says he never sees you complaining about your downfalls or pitfalls with Sony games only when it comes to MS and PC and its even if you really like them games why is that?.

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