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Forums - Sales Discussion - Famitsu sales: Week 44, 2021 - (25th Oct - 31st Oct)

RolStoppable said:
Farsala said:

That's true, though it is only 1.5m loss of about 17.5m expected, bringing it to about 16m.  All things equal, that is an 8% loss. So 92% of 1.55m is 1.43m.

Indeed, the chip shortage isn't going to be a significant factor. A better comparison than the forecast reduction would be year over year shipments where it's ~16.3m (actual Oct - Mar) vs. ~15.8m (projected Oct - Mar), so it's only about 3% lower than a year ago.

And because it's unclear when exactly during this fiscal year Nintendo is actually getting hit by the chip shortages, it remains possible that the holiday quarter alone is up year over year and only the post-holiday quarter is affected.

Nintendo may not know how it's going to hit them either so their forecast might end up being higher than what turns out to be possible.



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@Kyuu
Posting this here because it's out of place on the sales comparisson thread.
About your discussion with Liquid Laser:

There are regularly new Japanese games in the famitsu top 30 that are Switch exclusive and alot that are multiplats. On the other hand not that many that aren't on the Switch at all. You named pretty much anything even remotely relevant.

Examples: Blue Reflection in 2017 launched only on Playstation and PC. Now the sequel is also on Switch.

Dynasty Warriors 9 originally wasn't on the Switch, now DW9 Empires is also coming to the Switch.

Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin originally wasn't supposed to release on the Switch. Then Nintendo convinced them to also release it there and it sold best on the Switch. Their next game is definitely also coming to Switch.

A-Train Express in 2017 was PS4 exclusive, A-Train All Aboard! Tourism from this year skipped the PS4 entirely.

Spike Chunsoft is bringing the entire Danganronpa series to the Switch with an additional spin-off.

Disgaea 6 is Switch exclusive outside of Japan after Disgaea 5 Complete sold best on the Switch.

You're trying to argue that the sales numbers don't have any influence on Japanese publishers by listing a bunch of games that aren't on the Switch, half of them because the Switch isn't powerfull enough, while ignoring everything else. Your non defined "homeconsole-esque" games aren't all that counts and is relevant in the market.

Look at Momotaro Dentetsu, Monster Hunter Rise, Monster Hunter Stories 2, Story of Seasons: Friends of Mineral Town and Pioneers of Olive Town, Rune Factory 4 Special and 5, the latest Derby Stallion, the latest Yu-Gi-Oh, Crayon Shin-chan, Fitness Boxing 1 and 2, Octopath Traveler, Triangle Strategy, DQ11S, Shin Megami Tensei V.

Nothing of this is relevant, right?

My point is, that there has been a shift in the Japanese market since 2017, after people realised how successful the Switch would be and it shows more and more every year.

Some big publishers not releasing their big budget games there doesn't make that irrelevant.

(Btw, you seem to think Guilty Geat Strive and Scarlet Nexus are AAA games. They aren't though, Tales of Arise isn't either.)



M-C CY Top 1000 2020:

  1. NSW - 471
  2. PS4 - 455
  3. 3DS - 49
  4. PS5 - 14
  5. PSV - 11

Nintendo - 520

PlayStation - 480

M-C CY Top 1000 2019: 

  1. PS4 - 469
  2. NSW - 362
  3. 3DS - 104
  4. PSV - 60
  5. XB1 - 5

PlayStation - 529

Nintendo - 466

M-C CY Top 1000 2018: 

  1. PS4 - 422
  2. NSW - 206
  3. 3DS - 193
  4. PSV - 155
  5. WIU - 13
  6. XB1 - 10

PlayStation - 577

Nintendo - 374

M-C CY Top 1000 2017: 

  1. PS4 - 347
  2. 3DS - 264
  3. PSV - 245
  4. NSW - 52
  5. WIU - 43
  6. PS3 - 40
  7. XB1 - 9

PlayStation - 632

Nintendo - 359

M-C CY Top 1000 2016: 

  1. PSV - 294
  2. 3DS - 290
  3. PS4 - 236
  4. PS3 - 105
  5. WIU - 60
  6. XB1 - 15

PlayStation - 635

Nintendo - 350

M-C CY Top 1000 2015: 

  1. PSV - 284
  2. 3DS - 266
  3. PS3 - 194
  4. PS4 - 148
  5. WIU - 63
  6. XB1 - 24
  7. PSP - 19
  8. 360 - 2

PlayStation - 645

Nintendo - 329

When you talk about third party releases you seem to be focused on a very limited amount of titles. 

Media Create's Top 1000 for the past five years paints the more complete picture, a ton of third party games were exclusive to the PSV and by now most of the developers behind those games are either making multiplat or Switch exclusive titles. 

I wouldn't call this shift irrelevant especially as it's likely to continue into 2022 when PS ecosystem will hit a low point, this year PS4 still supported 100-200K titles but next year this will become increasingly difficult as hardware is barely being sold anymore. With chip shortages continuing into 2022, the active user-base of the PS5 will continue to be low to support many 100-200K sellers, let alone any title surpassing 300K. Currently no game has sold over 100K physical units in Japan on the PS5, and only 5 titles have surpassed 100K on the PS4 this year according to Famitsu's physical estimates. 

The popularity of the PS5 is evident by it's software sales, most of the Japanese audience isn't paying a premium to resellers to purchase the console, so they are ending up overseas. This is leading to an active Japanese userbase that's still below 500K. We know that the chip shortage will continue in 2022 and that would mean that again majority of PS5 sales will end up overseas, leading to low software sales in Japan. By the end of 2022 it could be that PS5 active audience in Japan is still not big enough to support a game surpassing 300K, something PS4 had no problem doing in 2015. 

PS5 Top 5 Nov 2020-Nov 2021:

  1. Resident Evil: Village (Capcom) - 67.210
  2. Miles Morales (Sony) - 60.772
  3. Tales of Arise (Bandai Namco) - 60.106 
  4. Demon Souls (Sony) - 58.611
  5. Lost Judgement (Sega) – 33.151

PS4 Top 5 2014:

  1. Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes - 144.798
  2. Yakuza: Ishin! - 129.307
  3. Destiny - 119.707
  4. Grand Theft Auto V - 107.524
  5. Battlefield 4 - 107.282

PS4 Top 5 2015:

  1. Metal Gear Solid V - 421.743
  2. Dragon Quest Heroes - 325.778
  3. Call of Duty: Black Ops III - 274.270
  4. Bloodborne - 209.538
  5. Star Wars: Battlefront - 162.325

The first potential PS5 game to reach 100K in a single year is likely going to be Elden Ring and sales will be split across the PS4/PS5 - so I doubt the PS5 version would even reach the sales MGSV Ground Zeroes achieved in 2014. Even if Final Fantasy XVI launches in 2022 if it's a PS5 exclusive in Japan its likely to struggle to hit 300K

Now if high profile games are struggling to reach even 100K on the PS5, what is left for smaller publishers that get the majority of their sales in Japan? Sure Final Fantasy XVI might end up very successful even if they see a huge decline in Japan because of growth elsewhere but not everyone is the size of Square and can get paid by Sony for exclusivity. 

Last edited by noshten - on 11 November 2021


Oh wow Playstation is holding out a lot better than I would have imagined! 480 Playstation titles from a DEAD platform isn't too shabby (but I get it... the figure is misleading... and it could get worse until the shortages end).

Switch is at its peak, PS4 is dead in Japan. PS5 is an enigma atm. But... what are you guys not understanding about Japanese charts being of little relevance to globally desired game? Vita stuff have little impact on western sales, hence Vita was a proper failure! Sure, it is a nice bonus, and huge to smaller developers and the fans of these type of games alike, but it isn't enough to realize the transition The_Liquid_Laser envisioned. I don't think you're fully aware of the context.

Let me ask you a few questions:

1. How many copies are 3rd party games selling in Japan annually?

2. How many of them have been released globally? Do they perform as well there?

3. How many are full priced?

4. How many are indies?

5. What are the current digital ratios of PS4/5 and Switch?

6. How do they compare to global Japanese sales?

7. What type of games sell best? And do they perform similarly overseas?

Japan's trends are different from the rest of the world, do you disagree? Japan is a massive market for Switch (counting 1st parties) but the Switch worldwide isn't big enough to "replace" Playstation on a global level. It can stand as its own strong platform... but it isn't replacing shit. PS5 and PC will continue to be the main driver for Japanese software sales in units and revenue. Because while Switch does have a set of advantages, it also has a set of drawbacks. And I'd hate to sound like a broken record but PS5 and PC are virtually the same platform from a developer standpoint. A game that is made for PS5 will be made on PC and sell great numbers on both. Hence the explosion of Japanese game popularity in the 2nd half of last generation. Even NieR Automata exceeded 6 million. PC picked up without a notable impact on Playstation sales.

Indies and smaller games will prioritize Switch (they generally sell a lot in Japan, but do they worldwide?). A, AA, and AAA will prioritize Playstation and PC. How those smaller games perform on Switch in Japan isn't necessarily enough to dictate the decisions of major publishers and reputed developers. And it's proven not enough to make everyone marginalize Playstation which also keeps getting games that previously skipped the platform.

First of all this is a Japanese sales thread, Global sales discussion should be discussed elsewhere. What was originally discussed and what I wanted to further detail in my post, is the following point:

"there has been a shift in the Japanese market since 2017, after people realised how successful the Switch would be and it shows more and more every year."

Vita might have been a failure for Sony, but for many smaller Japanese third parties it was basically the last PS Platform they supported as a priority. They would have continued their support had Sony not discontinued and abandoned it. Once Sony discontinued their portable line they lost a good chunk of their advantage over Nintendo in Japan. Having 4-5 big AAA Japanese exclusive third party titles isn't enough if everything else is either multiplatform or exclusive to the Switch in Japan. 

Since 1994 Sony has been able to compete in the market thanks to exclusive Third Party support. The PS4 was their best supported system by Japanese third parties as most of them had lost fate in Nintendo after the Wii U bombed and tried to transition their portable titles to the system. Most developers were not ready for the success of the Switch and it took them several years to course correct. The 2014-2017 period is perhaps the closest Sony has come to dominating Japan, however this led them to decisions which ended up alienating both Japanese developers and audiences. Outside of abandoning portables, Japanese Developers no longer have local support for their games, so they need to be in talks with California and cannot communicate in another language besides English. They scaled down their own Sony Japan studios as well which tried to cater to the market. They are applying centralized censorship instead of just using Japanese CERO. "The U.S. office believes the PlayStation business doesn’t need games that only do well in JapanYou can read a bit more in this article from last year regarding Sony's Strategy for Japan: 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-07/microsoft-sets-sights-on-sony-s-home-turf-in-game-console-clash

The moment only a handful of AAA Japanese are exclusive and most of them are aiming for WW success, while there is no games that cater to Japan - the system there is no future for them in the country. PS5 isn't an enigma - it's clear that it's not an attractive hardware for Japanese tastes and lacks the exclusive software that caters to the market to overcome this problem. 

So now for the first time since 1994 the majority of the Japanese market is supporting Nintendo, this leads to further acceleration in their market share in the country. Since 2017 it has been mainly Nintendo's first party titles that have pushed the Switch to it's current heights. Outside the fact their hardware is well received in Japan, their games on the Switch are some of the best selling titles of all time in the country.

Signs of the change in priorities for larger third parties started to materialized only in late 2020 and were confirmed at the end of the year as for the first time since 1994 Nintendo's hardware had more software releases than the PlayStation ecosystem. If you think Japanese devs would be left by Japanese share-holders to abandon Japan without huge pressure you've got another thing coming. Gaming is a huge cultural export for Japan, so an ecosystem which isn't targeting Japan is likely to be doing X360 software numbers(which PS5 is currently below). Besides this Switch is massively successful eslewhere, and has a similar dominant position in South Korea, Taiwan & China compared to the PlayStation 5.. those markets are actually the second most important for most Japanese developers. 

Japanese trends are observed in other East Asian markets, the only difference is that PC is a huge factor there - unlike in Japan where PC is still a fairly small market share of the overall market. So it's increasingly more important to have your game on the Switch and PC if you want to do well, as opposed to the PS4/PS5. You can read a small anecdote about this from today's Bloomberg article:

"Frustration around Sony’s limited inventory is growing among game makers as well as fans of the console. One top Japanese game publisher has found players who used to buy PlayStation versions of its games are now gradually shifting to purchasing the PC edition, said an executive who asked not to be named."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-11/sony-trims-playstation-5-assembly-plans-after-chip-shortages-hit

If you want to answer your questions I suggest you start by Google Searching "Media Create CY" and looking through the past decade of sales information on all platforms and compare it to the current situation. 

Last edited by noshten - on 11 November 2021

noshten said:

Oh wow Playstation is holding out a lot better than I would have imagined! 480 Playstation titles from a DEAD platform isn't too shabby (but I get it... the figure is misleading... and it could get worse until the shortages end).

Switch is at its peak, PS4 is dead in Japan. PS5 is an enigma atm. But... what are you guys not understanding about Japanese charts being of little relevance to globally desired game? Vita stuff have little impact on western sales, hence Vita was a proper failure! Sure, it is a nice bonus, and huge to smaller developers and the fans of these type of games alike, but it isn't enough to realize the transition The_Liquid_Laser envisioned. I don't think you're fully aware of the context.

Let me ask you a few questions:

1. How many copies are 3rd party games selling in Japan annually?

2. How many of them have been released globally? Do they perform as well there?

3. How many are full priced?

4. How many are indies?

5. What are the current digital ratios of PS4/5 and Switch?

6. How do they compare to global Japanese sales?

7. What type of games sell best? And do they perform similarly overseas?

Japan's trends are different from the rest of the world, do you disagree? Japan is a massive market for Switch (counting 1st parties) but the Switch worldwide isn't big enough to "replace" Playstation on a global level. It can stand as its own strong platform... but it isn't replacing shit. PS5 and PC will continue to be the main driver for Japanese software sales in units and revenue. Because while Switch does have a set of advantages, it also has a set of drawbacks. And I'd hate to sound like a broken record but PS5 and PC are virtually the same platform from a developer standpoint. A game that is made for PS5 will be made on PC and sell great numbers on both. Hence the explosion of Japanese game popularity in the 2nd half of last generation. Even NieR Automata exceeded 6 million. PC picked up without a notable impact on Playstation sales.

Indies and smaller games will prioritize Switch (they generally sell a lot in Japan, but do they worldwide?). A, AA, and AAA will prioritize Playstation and PC. How those smaller games perform on Switch in Japan isn't necessarily enough to dictate the decisions of major publishers and reputed developers. And it's proven not enough to make everyone marginalize Playstation which also keeps getting games that previously skipped the platform.

First of all this is a Japanese sales thread, Global sales discussion should be discussed elsewhere. What was originally discussed and what I wanted to further detail in my post, is the following point:

"there has been a shift in the Japanese market since 2017, after people realised how successful the Switch would be and it shows more and more every year."

Vita might have been a failure for Sony, but for many smaller Japanese third parties it was basically the last PS Platform they supported as a priority. They would have continued their support had Sony not discontinued and abandoned it. Once Sony discontinued their portable line they lost a good chunk of their advantage over Nintendo in Japan. Having 4-5 big AAA Japanese exclusive third party titles isn't enough if everything else is either multiplatform or exclusive to the Switch in Japan. 

Since 1994 Sony has been able to compete in the market thanks to exclusive Third Party support. The PS4 was their best supported system by Japanese third parties as most of them had lost fate in Nintendo after the Wii U bombed and tried to transition their portable titles to the system. Most developers were not ready for the success of the Switch and it took them several years to course correct. The 2014-2017 period is perhaps the closest Sony has come to dominating Japan, however this led them to decisions which ended up alienating both Japanese developers and audiences. Outside of abandoning portables, Japanese Developers no longer have local support for their games, so they need to be in talks with California and cannot communicate in another language besides English. They scaled down their own Sony Japan studios as well which tried to cater to the market. They are applying centralized censorship instead of just using Japanese CERO. "The U.S. office believes the PlayStation business doesn’t need games that only do well in JapanYou can read a bit more in this article from last year regarding Sony's Strategy for Japan: 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-07/microsoft-sets-sights-on-sony-s-home-turf-in-game-console-clash

The moment only a handful of AAA Japanese are exclusive and most of them are aiming for WW success, while there is no games that cater to Japan - the system there is no future for them in the country. PS5 isn't an enigma - it's clear that it's not an attractive hardware for Japanese tastes and lacks the exclusive software that caters to the market to overcome this problem. 

So now for the first time since 1994 the majority of the Japanese market is supporting Nintendo, this leads to further acceleration in their market share in the country. Since 2017 it has been mainly Nintendo's first party titles that have pushed the Switch to it's current heights. Outside the fact their hardware is well received in Japan, their games on the Switch are some of the best selling titles of all time in the country.

Signs of the change in priorities for larger third parties started to materialized only in late 2020 and were confirmed at the end of the year as for the first time since 1994 Nintendo's hardware had more software releases than the PlayStation ecosystem. If you think Japanese devs would be left by Japanese share-holders to abandon Japan without huge pressure you've got another thing coming. Gaming is a huge cultural export for Japan, so an ecosystem which isn't targeting Japan is likely to be doing X360 software numbers(which PS5 is currently below). Besides this Switch is massively successful eslewhere, and has a similar dominant position in South Korea, Taiwan & China compared to the PlayStation 5.. those markets are actually the second most important for most Japanese developers. 

Japanese trends are observed in other East Asian markets, the only difference is that PC is a huge factor there - unlike in Japan where PC is still a fairly small market share of the overall market. So it's increasingly more important to have your game on the Switch and PC if you want to do well, as opposed to the PS4/PS5. You can read a small anecdote about this from today's Bloomberg article:

"Frustration around Sony’s limited inventory is growing among game makers as well as fans of the console. One top Japanese game publisher has found players who used to buy PlayStation versions of its games are now gradually shifting to purchasing the PC edition, said an executive who asked not to be named."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-11/sony-trims-playstation-5-assembly-plans-after-chip-shortages-hit

If you want to answer your questions I suggest you start by Google Searching "Media Create CY" and looking through the past decade of sales information on all platforms and compare it to the current situation. 

But the data shows that since about 2007, Nintendo dominates the software charts in Japan with a big margin, even in the 2014-2017 period thanks to the 3DS. 

Trying to suggest that the PS ecosystem decline only started recently when the Switch releases is incorrect since the data shows otherwise.

I would take anything that Bloomberg publish with a grain of salt anyway, Sony only said that they were expecting to ship more than what the PS4 shipped for FY2014 which was 14.8 million units for FY2021. They never increased their forecast to 16 million units.

And considering that digital sales are a thing now, the data seems incomplete, but performance seems to be similar of what the PS4 was doing back in 2014. And take into account that Sony changed their method in Japan and they tend to focus towards a WW success in sales instead of only one region. The PS4 is the only console/handheld to sell 1.5 billion games excluding Japan sales. 


Last edited by kazuyamishima - on 11 November 2021

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Kyuu said:
noshten said:

M-C CY Top 1000 2020:

  1. NSW - 471
  2. PS4 - 455
  3. 3DS - 49
  4. PS5 - 14
  5. PSV - 11

Nintendo - 520

PlayStation - 480

M-C CY Top 1000 2019: 

  1. PS4 - 469
  2. NSW - 362
  3. 3DS - 104
  4. PSV - 60
  5. XB1 - 5

PlayStation - 529

Nintendo - 466

M-C CY Top 1000 2018: 

  1. PS4 - 422
  2. NSW - 206
  3. 3DS - 193
  4. PSV - 155
  5. WIU - 13
  6. XB1 - 10

PlayStation - 577

Nintendo - 374

M-C CY Top 1000 2017: 

  1. PS4 - 347
  2. 3DS - 264
  3. PSV - 245
  4. NSW - 52
  5. WIU - 43
  6. PS3 - 40
  7. XB1 - 9

PlayStation - 632

Nintendo - 359

M-C CY Top 1000 2016: 

  1. PSV - 294
  2. 3DS - 290
  3. PS4 - 236
  4. PS3 - 105
  5. WIU - 60
  6. XB1 - 15

PlayStation - 635

Nintendo - 350

M-C CY Top 1000 2015: 

  1. PSV - 284
  2. 3DS - 266
  3. PS3 - 194
  4. PS4 - 148
  5. WIU - 63
  6. XB1 - 24
  7. PSP - 19
  8. 360 - 2

PlayStation - 645

Nintendo - 329

When you talk about third party releases you seem to be focused on a very limited amount of titles. 

Media Create's Top 1000 for the past five years paints the more complete picture, a ton of third party games were exclusive to the PSV and by now most of the developers behind those games are either making multiplat or Switch exclusive titles. 

I wouldn't call this shift irrelevant especially as it's likely to continue into 2022 when PS ecosystem will hit a low point, this year PS4 still supported 100-200K titles but next year this will become increasingly difficult as hardware is barely being sold anymore. With chip shortages continuing into 2022, the active user-base of the PS5 will continue to be low to support many 100-200K sellers, let alone any title surpassing 300K. Currently no game has sold over 100K physical units in Japan on the PS5, and only 5 titles have surpassed 100K on the PS4 this year according to Famitsu's physical estimates. 

The popularity of the PS5 is evident by it's software sales, most of the Japanese audience isn't paying a premium to resellers to purchase the console, so they are ending up overseas. This is leading to an active Japanese userbase that's still below 500K. We know that the chip shortage will continue in 2022 and that would mean that again majority of PS5 sales will end up overseas, leading to low software sales in Japan. By the end of 2022 it could be that PS5 active audience in Japan is still not big enough to support a game surpassing 300K, something PS4 had no problem doing in 2015. 

PS5 Top 5 Nov 2020-Nov 2021:

  1. Resident Evil: Village (Capcom) - 67.210
  2. Miles Morales (Sony) - 60.772
  3. Tales of Arise (Bandai Namco) - 60.106 
  4. Demon Souls (Sony) - 58.611
  5. Lost Judgement (Sega) – 33.151

PS4 Top 5 2014:

  1. Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes - 144.798
  2. Yakuza: Ishin! - 129.307
  3. Destiny - 119.707
  4. Grand Theft Auto V - 107.524
  5. Battlefield 4 - 107.282

PS4 Top 5 2015:

  1. Metal Gear Solid V - 421.743
  2. Dragon Quest Heroes - 325.778
  3. Call of Duty: Black Ops III - 274.270
  4. Bloodborne - 209.538
  5. Star Wars: Battlefront - 162.325

The first potential PS5 game to reach 100K in a single year is likely going to be Elden Ring and sales will be split across the PS4/PS5 - so I doubt the PS5 version would even reach the sales MGSV Ground Zeroes achieved in 2014. Even if Final Fantasy XVI launches in 2022 if it's a PS5 exclusive in Japan its likely to struggle to hit 300K

Now if high profile games are struggling to reach even 100K on the PS5, what is left for smaller publishers that get the majority of their sales in Japan? Sure Final Fantasy XVI might end up very successful even if they see a huge decline in Japan because of growth elsewhere but not everyone is the size of Square and can get paid by Sony for exclusivity. 

Oh wow Playstation is holding out a lot better than I would have imagined! 480 Playstation titles from a DEAD platform isn't too shabby (but I get it... the figure is misleading... and it could get worse until the shortages end).

Switch is at its peak, PS4 is dead in Japan. PS5 is an enigma atm. But... what are you guys not understanding about Japanese charts being of little relevance to globally desired game? Vita stuff have little impact on western sales, hence Vita was a proper failure! Sure, it is a nice bonus, and huge to smaller developers and the fans of these type of games alike, but it isn't enough to realize the transition The_Liquid_Laser envisioned. I don't think you're fully aware of the context.

Let me ask you a few questions:

1. How many copies are 3rd party games selling in Japan annually?

2. How many of them have been released globally? Do they perform as well there?

3. How many are full priced?

4. How many are indies?

5. What are the current digital ratios of PS4/5 and Switch?

6. How do they compare to global sales?

7. What type of games sell best? And do they perform similarly overseas?

Japan's trends are different from the rest of the world, do you disagree? Japan is a massive market for Switch (counting 1st parties) but the Switch worldwide isn't big enough to "replace" Playstation on a global level. It can stand as its own strong platform... but it isn't replacing shit. PS5 and PC will continue to be the main driver for Japanese software sales in units and revenue. Because while Switch does have a set of advantages, it also has a set of drawbacks. And I'd hate to sound like a broken record but PS5 and PC are virtually the same platform from a developer standpoint. A game that is made for PS5 will be made on PC and sell great numbers on both. Hence the explosion of Japanese game popularity in the 2nd half of last generation. Even NieR Automata exceeded 6 million. PC picked up without a notable impact on Playstation sales.

Indies and smaller games will prioritize Switch (they generally sell a lot in Japan, but do they worldwide?). A, AA, and AAA will prioritize Playstation and PC. How those smaller games perform on Switch in Japan isn't necessarily enough to dictate the decisions of major publishers and reputed developers. And it's proven not enough to make everyone marginalize Playstation which also keeps getting games that previously skipped the platform.

Correct. JP publishers will prioritize Playstation and PC for their biggest titles as they have the biggest growth and sales worldwide. The domestic market is becoming ever more irrelevant to JP pubs bar a few and even then a minority of franchises.

From Capcom latest report.



Less than 3M to 3DS' lifetime. Switch might still outsell it in this FY



kazuyamishima said:
noshten said:

First of all this is a Japanese sales thread, Global sales discussion should be discussed elsewhere. What was originally discussed and what I wanted to further detail in my post, is the following point:

"there has been a shift in the Japanese market since 2017, after people realised how successful the Switch would be and it shows more and more every year."

Vita might have been a failure for Sony, but for many smaller Japanese third parties it was basically the last PS Platform they supported as a priority. They would have continued their support had Sony not discontinued and abandoned it. Once Sony discontinued their portable line they lost a good chunk of their advantage over Nintendo in Japan. Having 4-5 big AAA Japanese exclusive third party titles isn't enough if everything else is either multiplatform or exclusive to the Switch in Japan. 

Since 1994 Sony has been able to compete in the market thanks to exclusive Third Party support. The PS4 was their best supported system by Japanese third parties as most of them had lost fate in Nintendo after the Wii U bombed and tried to transition their portable titles to the system. Most developers were not ready for the success of the Switch and it took them several years to course correct. The 2014-2017 period is perhaps the closest Sony has come to dominating Japan, however this led them to decisions which ended up alienating both Japanese developers and audiences. Outside of abandoning portables, Japanese Developers no longer have local support for their games, so they need to be in talks with California and cannot communicate in another language besides English. They scaled down their own Sony Japan studios as well which tried to cater to the market. They are applying centralized censorship instead of just using Japanese CERO. "The U.S. office believes the PlayStation business doesn’t need games that only do well in JapanYou can read a bit more in this article from last year regarding Sony's Strategy for Japan: 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-07/microsoft-sets-sights-on-sony-s-home-turf-in-game-console-clash

The moment only a handful of AAA Japanese are exclusive and most of them are aiming for WW success, while there is no games that cater to Japan - the system there is no future for them in the country. PS5 isn't an enigma - it's clear that it's not an attractive hardware for Japanese tastes and lacks the exclusive software that caters to the market to overcome this problem. 

So now for the first time since 1994 the majority of the Japanese market is supporting Nintendo, this leads to further acceleration in their market share in the country. Since 2017 it has been mainly Nintendo's first party titles that have pushed the Switch to it's current heights. Outside the fact their hardware is well received in Japan, their games on the Switch are some of the best selling titles of all time in the country.

Signs of the change in priorities for larger third parties started to materialized only in late 2020 and were confirmed at the end of the year as for the first time since 1994 Nintendo's hardware had more software releases than the PlayStation ecosystem. If you think Japanese devs would be left by Japanese share-holders to abandon Japan without huge pressure you've got another thing coming. Gaming is a huge cultural export for Japan, so an ecosystem which isn't targeting Japan is likely to be doing X360 software numbers(which PS5 is currently below). Besides this Switch is massively successful eslewhere, and has a similar dominant position in South Korea, Taiwan & China compared to the PlayStation 5.. those markets are actually the second most important for most Japanese developers. 

Japanese trends are observed in other East Asian markets, the only difference is that PC is a huge factor there - unlike in Japan where PC is still a fairly small market share of the overall market. So it's increasingly more important to have your game on the Switch and PC if you want to do well, as opposed to the PS4/PS5. You can read a small anecdote about this from today's Bloomberg article:

"Frustration around Sony’s limited inventory is growing among game makers as well as fans of the console. One top Japanese game publisher has found players who used to buy PlayStation versions of its games are now gradually shifting to purchasing the PC edition, said an executive who asked not to be named."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-11/sony-trims-playstation-5-assembly-plans-after-chip-shortages-hit

If you want to answer your questions I suggest you start by Google Searching "Media Create CY" and looking through the past decade of sales information on all platforms and compare it to the current situation. 

But the data shows that since about 2007, Nintendo dominates the software charts in Japan with a big margin, even in the 2014-2017 period thanks to the 3DS. 

Trying to suggest that the PS ecosystem decline only started recently when the Switch releases is incorrect since the data shows otherwise.

I would take anything that Bloomberg publish with a grain of salt anyway, Sony only said that they were expecting to ship more than what the PS4 shipped for FY2014 which was 14.8 million units for FY2021. They never increased their forecast to 16 million units.

And considering that digital sales are a thing now, the data seems incomplete, but performance seems to be similar of what the PS4 was doing back in 2014. And take into account that Sony changed their method in Japan and they tend to focus towards a WW success in sales instead of only one region. The PS4 is the only console/handheld to sell 1.5 billion games excluding Japan sales. 


Digital is not a thing in Japan. Digital sales are up for sure, but physical media is much stronger in Japan.

Agente42 said:
kazuyamishima said:

But the data shows that since about 2007, Nintendo dominates the software charts in Japan with a big margin, even in the 2014-2017 period thanks to the 3DS. 

Trying to suggest that the PS ecosystem decline only started recently when the Switch releases is incorrect since the data shows otherwise.

I would take anything that Bloomberg publish with a grain of salt anyway, Sony only said that they were expecting to ship more than what the PS4 shipped for FY2014 which was 14.8 million units for FY2021. They never increased their forecast to 16 million units.

And considering that digital sales are a thing now, the data seems incomplete, but performance seems to be similar of what the PS4 was doing back in 2014. And take into account that Sony changed their method in Japan and they tend to focus towards a WW success in sales instead of only one region. The PS4 is the only console/handheld to sell 1.5 billion games excluding Japan sales. 


Digital is not a thing in Japan. Growing digital rates, for sure, but physical is far stronger in Japan. 

30%+ digital is pretty common in Japan. How is it not a thing.



src said:
Kyuu said:

Oh wow Playstation is holding out a lot better than I would have imagined! 480 Playstation titles from a DEAD platform isn't too shabby (but I get it... the figure is misleading... and it could get worse until the shortages end).

Switch is at its peak, PS4 is dead in Japan. PS5 is an enigma atm. But... what are you guys not understanding about Japanese charts being of little relevance to globally desired game? Vita stuff have little impact on western sales, hence Vita was a proper failure! Sure, it is a nice bonus, and huge to smaller developers and the fans of these type of games alike, but it isn't enough to realize the transition The_Liquid_Laser envisioned. I don't think you're fully aware of the context.

Let me ask you a few questions:

1. How many copies are 3rd party games selling in Japan annually?

2. How many of them have been released globally? Do they perform as well there?

3. How many are full priced?

4. How many are indies?

5. What are the current digital ratios of PS4/5 and Switch?

6. How do they compare to global sales?

7. What type of games sell best? And do they perform similarly overseas?

Japan's trends are different from the rest of the world, do you disagree? Japan is a massive market for Switch (counting 1st parties) but the Switch worldwide isn't big enough to "replace" Playstation on a global level. It can stand as its own strong platform... but it isn't replacing shit. PS5 and PC will continue to be the main driver for Japanese software sales in units and revenue. Because while Switch does have a set of advantages, it also has a set of drawbacks. And I'd hate to sound like a broken record but PS5 and PC are virtually the same platform from a developer standpoint. A game that is made for PS5 will be made on PC and sell great numbers on both. Hence the explosion of Japanese game popularity in the 2nd half of last generation. Even NieR Automata exceeded 6 million. PC picked up without a notable impact on Playstation sales.

Indies and smaller games will prioritize Switch (they generally sell a lot in Japan, but do they worldwide?). A, AA, and AAA will prioritize Playstation and PC. How those smaller games perform on Switch in Japan isn't necessarily enough to dictate the decisions of major publishers and reputed developers. And it's proven not enough to make everyone marginalize Playstation which also keeps getting games that previously skipped the platform.

Correct. JP publishers will prioritize Playstation and PC for their biggest titles as they have the biggest growth and sales worldwide. The domestic market is becoming ever more irrelevant to JP pubs bar a few and even then a minority of franchises.

From Capcom latest report.

Sony will lose all East Asia and East Asia not important more?

One domestic market with almost 3x of size of UK market?