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Forums - Sales Discussion - VGChartz Sales Comparison Charts September 2021 Discussion Thread

curl-6 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

XBox will be beating PS5 in the US once it starts releasing some good exclusives.

Third parties are actually heading to Switch in Japan.  The very same thing is happening.

I don't think anybody expects PS5 to do especially well in Japan, but I don't see any evidence that PS5 will collapse everywhere but Europe as you predict. It's still a very strong brand in America and ROTW, it will continue to get the majority of major third party software as well as Sony's first party catalog which is stronger than ever.

All of the big 3 are strong brands in the US.  (I am saying this as someone who lives in the US.)  However, if I had to rank them, I'd put XBox first and Playstation last.  XB1 sold almost as well as PS4 in the US in spite of XB1 totally botching their launch and PS4 having a lot more exclusives.  It was competitive purely on branding.

Also, as this generations progresses, PS5 will get fewer Japanese titles than Switch.  PS5 will mostly rely on multiplats and a few really big titles (e.g. Final Fantasy), but Switch will get more Japanese titles overall.  Playstation is losing 3rd party support.

Kakadu18 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

PS5 has a whole lot in common with the N64.  Both are successors to systems that dominated their generation.  However, both are destined to fall.  You have to look at the factors that cause the numbers, and not just the numbers themselves.  Going by the numbers, the N64 was the fastest selling system in its first 1-2 years.  The most enthusiastic console gamers could not wait to buy one.  However, if you looked closely at the time, then you might have noticed CD's were a clearly better choice over cartridges, especially for developers.  An alert person would have seen the tides shifting, but you'd never have seen it if you went purely by the sales numbers for the first 1-2 years.

The main problem with the PS5 is that it's really only going to be popular in Europe.  Japan PS5 sales will fall next year, because no one there is buying PS5 software.  RoW sales behavior is not too different from Japan.  In North America, XBox is arguably a stronger brand than Playstation.  With Microsoft clearly putting in a lot more effort this generation, they are going to coax back a lot of 360 gamers who bought a PS4.  That leaves Europe.  PS5 will do well in Europe.  It's going to lose a lot of ground everywhere else.

The SNES didn't really dominate it's generation. While it did sell more than the Mega Drive, that one still was very healthy competition.

Worldwide the SNES sold more than all of its competitors combined.  I would call that dominant.  Sure the SNES sales were fairly close to the Genesis in the US, but the PS4 sales were also fairly close to XB1 in the US.  In both cases when the generation ended it was clear who the winner was, and so the next system (N64 and PS5 respectively) were set to sell well out of the gate.  In spite of this both systems have bigger factors that undermine sales after the first 1-2 years.

A winning system that was not dominant would be the Wii.  It sold like hotcakes for a few years, but it did not sell more than all competitors combined.



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Kakadu18 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

PS5 has a whole lot in common with the N64.  Both are successors to systems that dominated their generation.  However, both are destined to fall.  You have to look at the factors that cause the numbers, and not just the numbers themselves.  Going by the numbers, the N64 was the fastest selling system in its first 1-2 years.  The most enthusiastic console gamers could not wait to buy one.  However, if you looked closely at the time, then you might have noticed CD's were a clearly better choice over cartridges, especially for developers.  An alert person would have seen the tides shifting, but you'd never have seen it if you went purely by the sales numbers for the first 1-2 years.

The main problem with the PS5 is that it's really only going to be popular in Europe.  Japan PS5 sales will fall next year, because no one there is buying PS5 software.  RoW sales behavior is not too different from Japan.  In North America, XBox is arguably a stronger brand than Playstation.  With Microsoft clearly putting in a lot more effort this generation, they are going to coax back a lot of 360 gamers who bought a PS4.  That leaves Europe.  PS5 will do well in Europe.  It's going to lose a lot of ground everywhere else.

The SNES didn't really dominate it's generation. While it did sell more than the Mega Drive, that one still was very healthy competition.

Outside of Japan The SNES and Megadrive were equals, SNES had a decent victory in Total lifetime sales because in Japan SNES dominated with 19 million consoles sold to just 4 million Megadrives.



ShadowLink93 said:
Kakadu18 said:

The SNES didn't really dominate it's generation. While it did sell more than the Mega Drive, that one still was very healthy competition.

Outside of Japan The SNES and Megadrive were equals, SNES had a decent victory in Total lifetime sales because in Japan SNES dominated with 19 million consoles sold to just 4 million Megadrives.

I know. It only dominated in Japan.



Switch should be able to extend it's lead over the PS4 during the next few months.



At this point the fabled cliff would have to come to fruition for Switch not to pass the PS4, and with 2022's lineup looking like its strongest since 2017, that doesn't seem likely barring a suicidally premature successor.



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Kyuu said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

All of the big 3 are strong brands in the US.  (I am saying this as someone who lives in the US.)  However, if I had to rank them, I'd put XBox first and Playstation last.  XB1 sold almost as well as PS4 in the US in spite of XB1 totally botching their launch and PS4 having a lot more exclusives.  It was competitive purely on branding.

Also, as this generations progresses, PS5 will get fewer Japanese titles than Switch.  PS5 will mostly rely on multiplats and a few really big titles (e.g. Final Fantasy), but Switch will get more Japanese titles overall.  Playstation is losing 3rd party support.

Kakadu18 said:

The SNES didn't really dominate it's generation. While it did sell more than the Mega Drive, that one still was very healthy competition.

Worldwide the SNES sold more than all of its competitors combined.  I would call that dominant.  Sure the SNES sales were fairly close to the Genesis in the US, but the PS4 sales were also fairly close to XB1 in the US.  In both cases when the generation ended it was clear who the winner was, and so the next system (N64 and PS5 respectively) were set to sell well out of the gate.  In spite of this both systems have bigger factors that undermine sales after the first 1-2 years.

A winning system that was not dominant would be the Wii.  It sold like hotcakes for a few years, but it did not sell more than all competitors combined.

You said PS5 would be in SERIOUS TROUBLE if Sony didn't release it in 2018/2019 since Switch was going to take all those sweet Japanese 3rd party games starting from 2018. And I recall you predicting PS5 to at best sell 10 million this year, and only thanks to COVID inflating sales. To no one's surprise, both of your predictions proved poor. But did you learn from it? Apparently not.

Playstation's western 3rd party support remains excellent, and there are no signs of that changing whatsoever. Switch is inheriting Vita's support. The kind of Japanese support its getting poses no threat to Playstation 5, which like PS4, will share the majority of those smaller games anyways. You can't really draw any conclusions about PS5's status in Japan yet due to neighboring countries scalping/importing, backwards compatibility, and digital ratios. It does raise an eyebrow that PS4's multiplats are keeping up and sometimes outselling their Switch counterparts despite being a dead platform with small install base, a lot of them are probably being played on PS5 through backwards compatibility.

Switch is inheriting 3DS' 3rd party support as well, but that wasn't a threat to Playstation either. At worst, the loss or decline of those smaller titles on Playstation will affect the hardware sales in Japan, which is an insignificant region to bigger Japanese games, save for Monster Hunter (which in the case of MHW still only sold around 4.4 million in Japan vs 15.6 million and counting for the rest of the world).

Playstation took back Monster Hunter as a multiplat (you'd be naive to think MH is going to become a full Nintendo exclusive again when Rise will end up 5-8 million copies behind World; a steep decline. Capcom isn't that stupid), Dragon Quest returned to Playstation (also as a multiplat) and its next installment is being designed to cater for western audience, because Square Enix realized Japan is too small a market to justify being the sole focus anymore and decided to take risks. Final Fantasy switched from multiplats (skipping Nintendo), to console/timed exclusives on PS4/5. Forspoken, a Japanese AAA game, is also a timed PS5 exclusive that is skipping Switch. Nothing is changing. Elden Ring, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, Tales of, Ace Combat, leading fighting games... Switch isn't snatching any of them but you keep going and on and on about the disasters Playstation is facing lol. In 2017, you told us to wait for 2018. Now you're telling us to wait a few more years.

Switch is an amazing platform with a decent 3rd part support (excellent for a Nintendo system), but the hyperbole has to stop. What's selling those consoles is Nintendo unrivaled 1st party software, their unified proposition, and hybrid nature. Decent 3rd party support is a nice additive, but it isn't the main selling point, nor is it a threat to Playstation.

When developers/investors think "Playstation", Xbox and mainstream PC are included in the equation since the three are just shy of being one development model. Switch isn't, because the platform is too underpowered and has an outdated portable architecture. The support should weaken as we exit the "CrossGen" period, which is taking unusually long this time due in part to COVID.

Xbox isn't the bigger brand in the US, and the so called "disastrous Xbox One launch" is overstated. The much more supply constrained PS5 is comfortably outselling the Series S/X in the US without any top tier exclusives either. You forgot to tell us that Xbox was notably cheaper than PS4 for the last 2 or 3 years, which helped it somewhat keep pace in its two best countries. Nevertheless, the brand is powerful enough that it does have a real potential to bounce back and beat a worse received Playstation system in the US/UK. If Xbox's exclusive quality and reputation keep climbing, and Playstation's start declining, then obviously, Xbox might be on the top again. Brand power is associated with quality and reputation, I wouldn't separate the two.

Do you have links to these predictions?



Kyuu said:

You said PS5 would be in SERIOUS TROUBLE if Sony didn't release it in 2018/2019 since Switch was going to take all those sweet Japanese 3rd party games starting from 2018. And I recall you predicting PS5 to at best sell 10 million this year, and only thanks to COVID inflating sales. To no one's surprise, both of your predictions proved poor. But did you learn from it? Apparently not.

Dunno if you're talking about an earlier time but he predicted 10-12m this year. Still too low PS5 will sell 14m+ in 2021.

Sell-through expectations for the PlayStation 5 in 2021? (vgchartz.com)



Wii still has a substantial lead for now, but we're nearing the point where its legs gave out for good, whereas Switch may have years of strong sales left in it.



Xbox One looks to be a relative non-factor from here on, and with PS4 shipping just 200k last quarter it's like PS3 and 360, after trailing behind for so long, will ultimately emerge victorious.



curl-6 said:

Xbox One looks to be a relative non-factor from here on, and with PS4 shipping just 200k last quarter it's like PS3 and 360, after trailing behind for so long, will ultimately emerge victorious.

if XBO released a year earlier like the 360 did and had an extra year 8th gen would probably have won, but yeah this race is done now.