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Pemalite on 26 June 2021

I think it's got some good legitimate improvements. But a regression in some other areas in the name of "design language" over functionality.
I am a power user, not an idiot.

What I would like to see is for system requirements to be lifted even higher. I.E. 128GB SSD, Quad-Core, 8GB of Ram at a minimum... Because even my desktop from 2007 matches that.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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LurkerJ on 26 June 2021
zero129 said:
JRPGfan said:

You get mandated internet connection, and a need for a MS account to use windows.

also forced updates are still there (ToS, allowing them to install, remove stuff from your pc)


*edit: Moveing on from windows 7 was hard.... I tried windows 8 and hated it.... windows 8,1 is barely passable.
Windows 10 never really sat well with me, and windows 11 looks worse (why change things this much?). 
 Its windows 7 or 8,1 for me.

Bolded: Needing the MS account is only for the Home version and im pretty sure you only need internet on setting it up.

All other versions dont need an MS account or an internet connection to set up. But if your running windows why wouldnt you have an MS account anyways?.

I never felt comfortable using a personal account with my own personal details like my phone number, accurate location and all the other information that companies want to know about me and have a personal profile stored somewhere. So on my Android phone I use a deserted google account that's not connected in anyway to what I use on my computer at home or my computer at work etc. I know we're supposed to bend over and most companies make it extremely difficult to opt out of these things and I am in the minority and probably no body cares and I am not saying anyone should care. I am personally not comfortable with being logged in all the time at an OS level. 

The thing with MS Windows, it's not a free product like Android is. It never was. I have two computers and paid for my Win 8.1 license and I paid for my Win 10 license. MS is operating under two business models, the google/facebook model, so I am basically the product and they get to make money off what they learn about me (fair enough), however, they also operate like Apple in the sense that they ask for money for the only 2 useful services they offer (Windows and Office). The nerve. 

Cloud gaming becoming much better every month might just push me to switch Apple's computers. I miss how tasteful my iPhone UI interface was compared to Android/Windows. By the looks of it, MS seems to like their approach to UI as much as I do. 



JCGamer55 on 26 June 2021

Looks cool. I like it now better than when the beta leaked and looked pretty much like a Linux distro.



LurkerJ on 26 June 2021
zero129 said:

Im amazed how many apple fans are in this thread, im also amazed how many of them apple fans are also Sony fans judging by their post history here.
Clearly you guys are never going to like what Windows is doing.
However just to be calling the thing pretty much shit without even getting to try it over a few small problems is madness when apple does the very same thing and add bloat to their OS and you need an Apple account to even use an Iphone id imagine you would need one for a Mac too. Thats whats funny is most of the things people are complain about they have been happy using on their Macs/Iphones for ages now...
Lets wait for the thing to release and see how it performs. If its faster and better performing then Windows 10 well then i dont care about them allowing me to link my phone if i wish or having a skype like thing build into the OS. I'm also on the Pro version so i dont need an MS account but i have one anyways for windows 10.

I don't think anyone here praised Apple here but me lol, and I don't even use Apple products except for an iPad. Maybe engage rather just generalise and assume? 

Yes, I need an account to use anything and everything these days, including my iPad. However, Apple's business model makes me at a lot more at ease with how they handle data and user profiling. I am not going to even pretend their doing it out of the goodness of their heart. It's a BUSINESS model after all, one that I am more comfortable with as a user. 

I also explained, rationally, why MS business model isn't even similar to that of Google, and how Android is FREE. If you think I am irrational, that's fine, but no need to link to console wars lol. 



SvennoJ on 26 June 2021

Sucks. I was planning on getting a new gaming laptop at the end of the year but don't want windows 11. So now I either have to get one before win 11 invades or just go back to consoles until windows 11 is stable.

Also I don't like the idea of TPM at all and it's all very confusing.. Someone tried to explain it but I don't get it.

Yes, it is mandatory. But I think there’s a lot of misconceptions about it. So I can clear things out for you.

You can still transfer files across drives and across PC. But you need for both of them to be turned on. But when you turned on, your OS will decrypt the drive so you can access and transfer files. The PC only encrypts and lock the drive when they’re turned off. But even without BitLocker or TPM. You can’t move files anyway. So in terms of usability. There’s no difference.

You would only have problem if your backup drive is done by opening your PC/laptop case, disconnect your internal drive and plugging into another computer. But even so, it would ask you for a decryption key which you should already have it backed up somewhere.

If you’re only using USB backup drive, TPM doesn’t really do anything because as long as your PC is on, your internal drive would be in unlocked mode anyway.

You can turn off TPM. But you I’m guessing you won’t be able to install Windows 11 without it turned on. And even if you turn on TPM just to install Win 11, your internal drive where you install the Win11 would be encrypted with BitLocker. So if you turn off TPM after you install Win 11 when the TPM is on, you won’t be able to boot because your disabled TPM now no longer be able to decrypt and unlock your boot drive.

I think a lot of people are still confused and misunderstood about TPM, BitLocker and the likes. And it’s understandable why you would be afraid of it. But once you understand what it actually is and how it works. There’s really no reason why you wouldn’t want it turned on.

About bricking laptop, this is the reason why I don’t like using the “upgrade” path. I always clean reinstall windows into a reformatted drive. I always do this at least twice a year. Once for every major release of windows. I hardly backup my files because my important files are automatically synced to my cloud OneDrive. So I just cleared and delete all of my drive partition, the reformat the whole drive cleaning everything and fresh reinstall Windows. That’s to make sure my PC is always feeling “new” without any junk that can make the PC sluggish or in your case, bricked.

---

Thanks for the reply, however I’m only more confused now 

I don’t want any encryption on my laptop, internal/external drives, usb sticks etc. Also no interest in OneDrive. Can you opt out of / turn off all encryption/decryption and just use it like it was before?

---

The short answer is. Yes you can turn off all encryption and use your PC as it was before. But you won’t be able to install and run Windows 11. That’s all. So you’ll be stuck in Windows 10 until its end of support in 2025.

And if you still don’t want to use the encryption by then you’ll still be stuck in Win 10 even after it no longer supported, and new hardware may no longer work with it, and you won’t be receiving security updates which makes your PC vulnerable to attacks even if it’s just sitting at home and not going anywhere.



What is the problem you might ask. I use external HDDs for backup and transferring files between XP, Windows 7 and Windows 10 PCs / laptops. I do not want any encryption or hurdles. Can I use windows 11 while still transferring files between windows 7 and windows 11 via external HDD. Can I take my HDD/SSD out of a windows 11 laptop (if the laptop dies for example) and plug it into a new one without trouble. Can I upgrade hardware without trouble.

Is Windows 11 going to lock my laptop up more or less? The windows store storage system is already a pita and extremely anti consumer, I don't want more of that.



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SvennoJ on 26 June 2021
zero129 said:
JRPGfan said:

You get mandated internet connection, and a need for a MS account to use windows.

also forced updates are still there (ToS, allowing them to install, remove stuff from your pc)


*edit: Moveing on from windows 7 was hard.... I tried windows 8 and hated it.... windows 8,1 is barely passable.
Windows 10 never really sat well with me, and windows 11 looks worse (why change things this much?). 
 Its windows 7 or 8,1 for me.

Bolded: Needing the MS account is only for the Home version and im pretty sure you only need internet on setting it up.

All other versions dont need an MS account or an internet connection to set up. But if your running windows why wouldnt you have an MS account anyways?.

Why would you have an MS account? I have one, just because I still have a hotmail email account since the 90s and it automatically got changed or integrated into a MS account. However my wife doesn't have one, doesn't want one either. It was already a pita to get her new laptop working as at first it would not continue installation without a MS account. (You need to be disconnected from the internet to get around it)

Anyway, the only 'good' thing about my MS account is that it forces me to type in my password every day to wake up my laptop. So I'll never forget my email password. Other than that, no use for it.

I just got used to the convoluted menus and searching for settings in Windows 10, not looking forward to start over again.




Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 26 June 2021
SvennoJ said:

Sucks. I was planning on getting a new gaming laptop at the end of the year but don't want windows 11. So now I either have to get one before win 11 invades or just go back to consoles until windows 11 is stable.

Also I don't like the idea of TPM at all and it's all very confusing.. Someone tried to explain it but I don't get it.

Yes, it is mandatory. But I think there’s a lot of misconceptions about it. So I can clear things out for you.

You can still transfer files across drives and across PC. But you need for both of them to be turned on. But when you turned on, your OS will decrypt the drive so you can access and transfer files. The PC only encrypts and lock the drive when they’re turned off. But even without BitLocker or TPM. You can’t move files anyway. So in terms of usability. There’s no difference.

You would only have problem if your backup drive is done by opening your PC/laptop case, disconnect your internal drive and plugging into another computer. But even so, it would ask you for a decryption key which you should already have it backed up somewhere.

If you’re only using USB backup drive, TPM doesn’t really do anything because as long as your PC is on, your internal drive would be in unlocked mode anyway.

You can turn off TPM. But you I’m guessing you won’t be able to install Windows 11 without it turned on. And even if you turn on TPM just to install Win 11, your internal drive where you install the Win11 would be encrypted with BitLocker. So if you turn off TPM after you install Win 11 when the TPM is on, you won’t be able to boot because your disabled TPM now no longer be able to decrypt and unlock your boot drive.

I think a lot of people are still confused and misunderstood about TPM, BitLocker and the likes. And it’s understandable why you would be afraid of it. But once you understand what it actually is and how it works. There’s really no reason why you wouldn’t want it turned on.

About bricking laptop, this is the reason why I don’t like using the “upgrade” path. I always clean reinstall windows into a reformatted drive. I always do this at least twice a year. Once for every major release of windows. I hardly backup my files because my important files are automatically synced to my cloud OneDrive. So I just cleared and delete all of my drive partition, the reformat the whole drive cleaning everything and fresh reinstall Windows. That’s to make sure my PC is always feeling “new” without any junk that can make the PC sluggish or in your case, bricked.

---

Thanks for the reply, however I’m only more confused now 

I don’t want any encryption on my laptop, internal/external drives, usb sticks etc. Also no interest in OneDrive. Can you opt out of / turn off all encryption/decryption and just use it like it was before?

---

The short answer is. Yes you can turn off all encryption and use your PC as it was before. But you won’t be able to install and run Windows 11. That’s all. So you’ll be stuck in Windows 10 until its end of support in 2025.

And if you still don’t want to use the encryption by then you’ll still be stuck in Win 10 even after it no longer supported, and new hardware may no longer work with it, and you won’t be receiving security updates which makes your PC vulnerable to attacks even if it’s just sitting at home and not going anywhere.



What is the problem you might ask. I use external HDDs for backup and transferring files between XP, Windows 7 and Windows 10 PCs / laptops. I do not want any encryption or hurdles. Can I use windows 11 while still transferring files between windows 7 and windows 11 via external HDD. Can I take my HDD/SSD out of a windows 11 laptop (if the laptop dies for example) and plug it into a new one without trouble. Can I upgrade hardware without trouble.

Is Windows 11 going to lock my laptop up more or less? The windows store storage system is already a pita and extremely anti consumer, I don't want more of that.

I wouldn't worry too much about TPM. My Dell XPS has TPM 2.0 enabled with Bitlocker and it doesn't intrude at all. You can backup files to your external hard drive regardless of whether or not that is encrypted and there won't be any issues. You can certainly use windows 11 while still transferring files between windows 7 and windows 11 via external HDD. The only time there are any actual issues is if you physically take out your internal hard drive/ssd and put it in another device as the point of TPM and Bitlocker is to protect your sensitive data. Or if you want to access Safe Mode and it will ask for your decryption keys which should be backed up to your Microsoft account when you enable Bitlocker or locally somewhere safe.

Realistically, you can have TPM enabled in the BIOS to pass Windows checks but don't actually need to use it as it will only get used if you enable Bitlocker with your hard drive/ssd or something else that will encrypt your hard drive and can interact with TPM. My Desktop has TPM firmware enabled but I am not using Bitlocker with it so it's not doing anything however when I tried the Windows 11 Upgrade check, it passed without any issues.

Even if you have TPM enabled with Bitlocker, the transition will be like every other windows feature update. My Dell XPS has been doing Windows feature updates without any issues.

Last edited by Jizz_Beard_thePirate - on 26 June 2021

                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

SvennoJ on 26 June 2021
Captain_Yuri said:

I wouldn't worry too much about TPM. My Dell XPS has TPM 2.0 enabled with Bitlocker and it doesn't intrude at all. You can backup files to your external hard drive regardless of whether or not that is encrypted and there won't be any issues. You can certainly use windows 11 while still transferring files between windows 7 and windows 11 via external HDD. The only time there are any actual issues is if you physically take out your internal hard drive/ssd and put it in another device as the point of TPM and Bitlocker is to protect your sensitive data. Or if you want to access Safe Mode and it will ask for your decryption keys which should be backed up to your Microsoft account when you enable Bitlocker or locally somewhere safe.

Realistically, you can have TPM enabled in the BIOS to pass Windows checks but don't actually need to use it as it will only get used if you enable Bitlocker with your hard drive/ssd or something else that will encrypt your hard drive and can interact with TPM. My Desktop has TPM firmware enabled but I am not using Bitlocker with it so it's not doing anything however when I tried the Windows 11 Upgrade check, it passed without any issues.

Even if you have TPM enabled with Bitlocker, the transition will be like every other windows feature update. My Dell XPS has been doing Windows feature updates without any issues.

Thanks. I was worried Windows was moving to the awful system of Sony where everything on the HDD is encrypted and locked to the physical ID of the hardware. When my ps3 bricked, all data was inaccessible. So as long as I don't use bitlocker, and my laptop dies, I can still plug the internal drive into another laptop to get the data off.



HigHurtenflurst on 26 June 2021

The window management looks like a further improvement (something that has continually got better with each new Windows version) the rest of the stuff in the video is either visual fluff that makes little to no difference, or is adding additional hindrances to how I use Windows.

If they do indeed disallow local account & force a Windows account then thats the biggest reason I will be trying to avoid it for as long as possible.

For reference, I have never owned an Apple device, I have a 6y.o Android phone which of course had to have a google account created to use, something which I didn't know about till I got it, but it's an account that has never been connected to anything else & I don't keep significant data on my phone anyway... no banking, no significant web-browsing. Indeed apart from regular phone/text I only use it for news (BBC), weather (BBC until a month ago when their app stopped supporting KitKat), occasional Wikipedia/IMDB lookups & sometimes Youtube (through NewPipe, so never logged into Google)



SvennoJ on 26 June 2021
HigHurtenflurst said:

The window management looks like a further improvement (something that has continually got better with each new Windows version) the rest of the stuff in the video is either visual fluff that makes little to no difference, or is adding additional hindrances to how I use Windows.

If they do indeed disallow local account & force a Windows account then thats the biggest reason I will be trying to avoid it for as long as possible.

For reference, I have never owned an Apple device, I have a 6y.o Android phone which of course had to have a google account created to use, something which I didn't know about till I got it, but it's an account that has never been connected to anything else & I don't keep significant data on my phone anyway... no banking, no significant web-browsing. Indeed apart from regular phone/text I only use it for news (BBC), weather (BBC until a month ago when their app stopped supporting KitKat), occasional Wikipedia/IMDB lookups & sometimes Youtube (through NewPipe, so never logged into Google)

I don't have a smart phone, intentionally, don't need, don't want. However it gets more and more difficult now everything wants to send text messages for 2 step verification. Most still have the option of calling your landline 'Your code is ..." in the worst electronic voice possible... However I've been locked out of my Dutch pension (still have some there from before I moved to Canada) now they're locking everything behind a DigiD, which A. only works via SMS and B. not available for non EU citizens. Back to paper.

So smartphone integration is the last thing I want! Same with tablet stuff, tiles (I never use the start menu in windows 10, it's a mess), news feeds (stop contaminating my taskbar) and notifications. And why does it ask every time what kind of device I plug in when I plug in my headphones. Older versions never asked that before. This constant nagging, what should windows do, when you plug something in. Windows should leave me .... alone :)

Hopefully USB management gets better, FS2020 is still prone to lock up and/or crash when you plug something in while the game is running. And maybe they finally fixed the bug that my laptop won't enter sleep mode when a controller is charging on USB or when I leave my flight stick plugged in over night. So annoying.