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Forums - Sony Discussion - Is the PS4 Sony's Most Successful Console to Date?

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Which is Sony's Most "Successful" Console?

PS2 41 55.41%
 
PS4 33 44.59%
 
Total:74
Kyuu said:
Otter said:

One thing to not is that PS4 stands out as the generation where Sony established its own IP/studio dominance. Before this it was always dependant on 3rd parties and every icon people associate with the PS1/PS2 era were from third parties (Tekken, MSG, GTA, Final Fantasy etc). Even GOW and Ratchet which were introduced during the PS2's life, didn't truly find their commercial feet until recently

Well they had Gran Turismo, which was arguably the biggest title on PS1 and PS2, rivalled only by GTA. Kinda sad how much the series declined.

Yeah, forgot about GT



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PS4 is the most successful by bringing a lot more profit, but if you want the highest selling then yes PS2.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

The_Liquid_Laser said:
VAMatt said:

I think you're reading something into my comments that I didn't say. Who said anything about being greedy? I also didn't talk about profit adter my first comment, because that term may be confusing.  I said maximizing total return to owners.  Generally, chasing a quick buck is not the right way to do that, though it may be the best way to show profit in the short term.

My view is most definitely correct. There's not even any real debate about it, apparently outside of this website.  I most definitely know about business. I own 100% of a business now, owned another in the past.  Grew up in a family that owned and operated a business. I invest in other businesses, such that I own a piece of many. I studied business and have a business degree. It is what I do, and what I have always done.  If you disagree, you are disagreeing with essentially all business people.  There just is no question that businesses exist to maximize return to owners.  I don't thank you disagree though. I think you're just not understanding the subject matter very well.

In fact, in most countries, management of a public company has a legal responsibility to do just that. So if they tried to do something else, they would be liable, in some cases criminally liable, for not meeting their most basic fiduciary duty.  Now, most companies are not public. But, they still have to attract investment, and they still have to generate a return to continue existing.  They do those things only by trying to maximize return to investors/owners.  

Well, we may be talking past each other.  Legal obligations are different from a business's purpose.  The purpose of a business is to make and retain customers. 

However, you admit that chasing a quick buck is not really the right path.  That was essentially my issue with the PS4 in my first post.  PS2 expanded the gaming market as much as possible, and the PS4 did not.  They kept the price of their console high when they could have easily lowered it.  Not only does this exclude people from the gaming market, but it is not in Sony's best interest to keep prices high when that excludes significant customers.  The reason is that a competitor can easily come along with a cheaper price and take these customers for themselves.  These neglected customers end up empowering competitors.  By not serving them with the PS4, Sony may be shooting themselves in the foot for a quick buck.  On the other hand, if they just focused on serving their customers, and they lowered their system price, then they could avoid empowering competitors.  There are plenty of examples in other industries, where this very thing has happened.

I guess you should apply to be Sony's next CEO since you know better than then what is their best interest.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

I can't comment on financial profitability or software sales, but if you gauge success by hardware market dominance then the PS2 is the clear winner by a wide margin in my view. The PS2 basically held 80% of the market share and not only beat but badly demoralized its competition. With the PS4, even if you consider the last generation as being PS4 + XOne + Wii U then the PS4 won about 65% of the market share which is very dominant but still not quite at the level of the PS2. That said, if you look at the last generation as a battle among PS4 + XOne + Switch then the PS4 isn't even going to be the winner in this battle. To make matters worse, the PS4 had its plug pulled on it basically immediately after the PS5 was released which is basically the first time that this ever happened with a Sony console (even the PS3 didn't fade away as quickly as the PS4 has).

Those of us who remember the first half of the PS4's life will remember that it was a very dominant console that maybe wasn't far off of the PS2, but if you look at the second half I am seeing a console that was beaten quite soundly by the Switch as well as being a console that had a rather ungraceful exit from the market. At the end of the day, the gap between the Switch and the PS4 is likely going to be quite a bit larger than that gap between the Wii and PS3 was and that is the number people will look back upon when judging the winner of the last generation.



Azzanation said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Well, we may be talking past each other.  Legal obligations are different from a business's purpose.  The purpose of a business is to make and retain customers. 

However, you admit that chasing a quick buck is not really the right path.  That was essentially my issue with the PS4 in my first post.  PS2 expanded the gaming market as much as possible, and the PS4 did not.  They kept the price of their console high when they could have easily lowered it.  Not only does this exclude people from the gaming market, but it is not in Sony's best interest to keep prices high when that excludes significant customers.  The reason is that a competitor can easily come along with a cheaper price and take these customers for themselves.  These neglected customers end up empowering competitors.  By not serving them with the PS4, Sony may be shooting themselves in the foot for a quick buck.  On the other hand, if they just focused on serving their customers, and they lowered their system price, then they could avoid empowering competitors.  There are plenty of examples in other industries, where this very thing has happened.

A customer is nothing to a business if they dont have a wallet. PS4 maximizes profits from its customers, PS2 couldn't as it had to deal with piracy at the time and had no service model to continue to generate cash. Hence hardware sales (especially sold at a loss) means little if the customer is spending less. Also expanding upon the gaming market means little to shareholders if they are not generating profits. Each industry generates profits differently however the end goal is all the same. At a supermarket, companies lose money on Milk but rely on you buying other products like fruit which is sold at a profit. Sounds familiar to how hardware and software work doesn't it. Hardware is what gets the customers into the store, the software is the items the customers buy within the store to generate the profits. Ever wonder why some stores try to give you baskets at the door? So you impulse buy and carry more items, because that's where the money is.

I was removed from a bar once because i wasn't buying any drinks and i was taking up space, they knew i wasn't spending so they asked me to leave so they can get others into the bar who were willing to spend. See how important i was as a customer when i wasn't spending money.

Below is a good example of a made up scenario,

Example 1: Company (A) makes a games console, RnD was $3b to make. They sold 200m consoles at $100 each. They now hold the record of consoles sold and have the most customers with no Subscription model. Would you consider that a success?

Example 2: Company (B) makes a games console, RnD was $3b to make. They sold 100m consoles at $400 each, they also have 50m subscribers paying $100 per year over 5 years.

Both consoles were on the market for 5 years and sold the same amount of software. Who is more successful?

This entire post is a strawman argument.  PS2 was profitable even when they dropped the hardware price to $99.



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Azzanation said:

I was removed from a bar once because i wasn't buying any drinks and i was taking up space, they knew i wasn't spending so they asked me to leave so they can get others into the bar who were willing to spend. See how important i was as a customer when i wasn't spending money.

Seems like an awful place to visit



Illusion said:

I can't comment on financial profitability or software sales, but if you gauge success by hardware market dominance then the PS2 is the clear winner by a wide margin in my view. The PS2 basically held 80% of the market share and not only beat but badly demoralized its competition.

Microsoft was really demoralized when they launched the Xbox360.

Nintendo was really demoralized when they launched the Wii.



Conina said:

Microsoft was really demoralized when they launched the Xbox360.

Nintendo was really demoralized when they launched the Wii.

The Wii is proof that Nintendo gave up trying to compete directly with Sony and had to start carving out a new market for themselves by focusing on innovation.  The PS2 crushed the Yamauchi style management at Nintendo and created a much more humble company.  The PS1 had a hand in sending this message to Nintendo also, but after the N64 Nintendo still thought that they could reclaim the glory days that they had in the SNES and NES days with faster hardware.  The PS2 completely crushed any hope of this being possible.

If you don't believe that Nintendo was terrified of Sony during the PS2 era just look at how they pulled out all the stops and hastily replaced their three year old handheld platform as soon as Sony started to tread into Nintendo's handheld territory with the PSP.

I will admit that Microsoft wasn't demoralized by the PS2.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
Azzanation said:

A customer is nothing to a business if they dont have a wallet. PS4 maximizes profits from its customers, PS2 couldn't as it had to deal with piracy at the time and had no service model to continue to generate cash. Hence hardware sales (especially sold at a loss) means little if the customer is spending less. Also expanding upon the gaming market means little to shareholders if they are not generating profits. Each industry generates profits differently however the end goal is all the same. At a supermarket, companies lose money on Milk but rely on you buying other products like fruit which is sold at a profit. Sounds familiar to how hardware and software work doesn't it. Hardware is what gets the customers into the store, the software is the items the customers buy within the store to generate the profits. Ever wonder why some stores try to give you baskets at the door? So you impulse buy and carry more items, because that's where the money is.

I was removed from a bar once because i wasn't buying any drinks and i was taking up space, they knew i wasn't spending so they asked me to leave so they can get others into the bar who were willing to spend. See how important i was as a customer when i wasn't spending money.

Below is a good example of a made up scenario,

Example 1: Company (A) makes a games console, RnD was $3b to make. They sold 200m consoles at $100 each. They now hold the record of consoles sold and have the most customers with no Subscription model. Would you consider that a success?

Example 2: Company (B) makes a games console, RnD was $3b to make. They sold 100m consoles at $400 each, they also have 50m subscribers paying $100 per year over 5 years.

Both consoles were on the market for 5 years and sold the same amount of software. Who is more successful?

This entire post is a strawman argument.  PS2 was profitable even when they dropped the hardware price to $99.

Strawman? I am stating facts. No one is saying the PS2 isn't profitable, however compared to the PS4, the PS4 is on another level of success.

Entire PS2 profits $2.2b

Entire PS4 profits $11.3b from 2020, including PSN Subscriptions.

It doesn't always have to lead to a winner or loser but being more successful. This is why when people say Xbox isn't successful refuse to accept how much money these companies rake in via subscribers.

I am not sure why people consider console sales is the only way of success or winning without knowing the returns. The way i see it, the higher the profits the more successful something is.

PlayStation Reportedly Made More Money in 2018 Than It Did During The Entire PS2 Era (comicbook.com)

IcaroRibeiro said:
Azzanation said:

I was removed from a bar once because i wasn't buying any drinks and i was taking up space, they knew i wasn't spending so they asked me to leave so they can get others into the bar who were willing to spend. See how important i was as a customer when i wasn't spending money.

Seems like an awful place to visit

It wasnt a great place, i never went back there again however at the time, i didn't have much choice. It was just to prove my point on customer value. Wallet open, they love you, wallet closed, they dont.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 08 June 2021

Illusion said:

I can't comment on financial profitability or software sales, but if you gauge success by hardware market dominance then the PS2 is the clear winner by a wide margin in my view. The PS2 basically held 80% of the market share and not only beat but badly demoralized its competition. With the PS4, even if you consider the last generation as being PS4 + XOne + Wii U then the PS4 won about 65% of the market share which is very dominant but still not quite at the level of the PS2. That said, if you look at the last generation as a battle among PS4 + XOne + Switch then the PS4 isn't even going to be the winner in this battle. To make matters worse, the PS4 had its plug pulled on it basically immediately after the PS5 was released which is basically the first time that this ever happened with a Sony console (even the PS3 didn't fade away as quickly as the PS4 has).

Those of us who remember the first half of the PS4's life will remember that it was a very dominant console that maybe wasn't far off of the PS2, but if you look at the second half I am seeing a console that was beaten quite soundly by the Switch as well as being a console that had a rather ungraceful exit from the market. At the end of the day, the gap between the Switch and the PS4 is likely going to be quite a bit larger than that gap between the Wii and PS3 was and that is the number people will look back upon when judging the winner of the last generation.

Eeeerrr Sony haven't plugged the pull of PS4 yet... hell they even put an update for the PS3 FW this or last month, and backed up from closing the store. They will be releasing crossgen first party titles in 2022 (GT7 and GoW Ragnarok) and we will see third party titles for even longer.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."