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Forums - Sales - Will Switch outsell DS? PS2? Or neither?

 

Will Switch outsell PS2 and/or DS?

Yes, it will outsell PS2's (~159Million) 100 57.47%
 
Will outsell the DS, but not the PS2 74 42.53%
 
Switch will fall short of both DS & PS2 0 0%
 
Total:174
Shadow1980 said:

Probably not. It's not impossible (yet), and I would be pleasantly surprised if it did, but I doubt it will happen.

I'm not even surprised.

I am still surprised you keep using the Animal Crossing + Pandemic stuff even tho current sales trend for 2021 is up YoY

Shadow1980 said:

Nintendo is going to have to break with over two decades of past behavior and actually give serious, meaningful software support to the Switch for at least the next three years. And I'm not talking about just mid-level titles, spin-offs, and remakes/remasters. I'm talking new, original mega-blockbuster franchise titles. 2022 & 2023 are going to need to be as strong as 2017-2019 were in terms of software lineup. If we see things start to slow down next year, that could be a sign that Nintendo is drawing down support for the Switch in preparation for their next console, which isn't implausible considering their track record.

Yeah, for example a sequel to BOTW



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Shadow1980 said:
Matsku said:

Though Splatoon is a Blockbuster Nintendo title Nowadays which like already said on this thread is supported by Nintendo for 1-2 years. That supports the notion that there won't be a successor at least till 2024 which gives the Switch plenty of time to catch up to the Ps2. Also, we haven't seen a price cut or a significant refresh yet, and a price cut at least has a long-lasting effect on sales, which the Ps2 had.

There's been plenty of multiplayer-heavy titles released later in a system's life that were supported into the next generation. They weren't indicators that the generation they belonged to was going to be extended. Splatoon 3 coming out early next year doesn't necessarily rule out a Switch successor in 2023/early 2024. I really don't see the Switch lasting longer than 7 years (for reference, the DS lasted about 6-½ years), which may not be enough time to catch up with the DS & PS2. As I said, Nintendo is going to have to throw everything they have at it for it to be the new #1. But given their track record I don't think they'll do that, and they probably don't consider the bragging rights that would come with dethroning the PS2 to be as big of a deal as people on the internet do. Neither they nor their shareholders certainly won't lose any sleep if they "only" end up as the new #3.

Also, I'd consider the Switch Lite to be a fairly significant refresh. It's a form-factor change that's more significant than the changes between the original DS and DS Lite. Proportionally, they had about the same size reduction. The Switch Lite is more portable than the undocked base model: it's only two inches longer side-to-side than a New 3DS XL, and about the same height as one. It's also considerably less expensive than the hybrid, though it's arguably a case of "you get what you pay for." While it isn't as popular as the hybrid model, it did boost sales quite a lot in Japan, though it had a more modest impact on sales in the U.S.

I feel like your arguments are more wishful thinking than facts. Nintendo confirmed last year (in it's 4th year) the Switch was entering it's mid life cycle. This means it will def last 7-9 years. Splatoon is the kind of game that Nintendo likes to release and support over time. They did that with Splatoon and Splatoon 2. The fact they are releasing it in 2022 literally points out Switch will get support until 2024. Also, let's not forget Switch has a revision on the way, they won't just release a high end model to drop it 1-2 years later. They are also waiting for a price cut to push the sales on a longer trend. 

And imo, the biggest exclusives (not necessarily the biggest in terms of sales, but in terms of ambition) are yet to release on Switch. Pokemon Legends, Splatoon 3, Zelda Botw 2, Bayo 3, MP4, the next mainline Mario game, Monolith's project... i truly feel like the support for the Switch will be insane in the next years and that with the Pro model will help sustain the sales on the long term. 



JWeinCom said:

 There's also an issue of piracy in those markets which made certain systems really attractive like the PSP. Not sure how the Switch stacks up in terms of anti-piracy, but if Nintendo has successful measures, that would decrease the success it will have there. 

If piracy is a pro in developing countries (I know it is) then the Switch will do just fine, because it is plagued with piracy in those countries. 



I think switch will make it in the end and it will become #1 all time ! The chances are pretty likely! I think software support will be the same for the next 3 years with a good stream of 1st and 3rd party support.



Valdney said:
JWeinCom said:

 There's also an issue of piracy in those markets which made certain systems really attractive like the PSP. Not sure how the Switch stacks up in terms of anti-piracy, but if Nintendo has successful measures, that would decrease the success it will have there. 

If piracy is a pro in developing countries (I know it is) then the Switch will do just fine, because it is plagued with piracy in those countries. 

How does it compare to piracy on the PSP/PS2?



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Shadow1980 said:

Probably not. It's not impossible (yet), and I would be pleasantly surprised if it did, but I doubt it will happen. Personally, I'm thinking it'll end up somewhere in the 130-140M range.

The way it's selling right now, I don't see how it could stop at 130M. 140M+ is pretty much guaranteed by now.

Shadow1980 said:

On a regional basis, while the Switch is going to beat the PS2 by a very comfortable margin in Japan, and has a decent shot of beating the PS2 in the U.S., it's not going to get anywhere close to the PS2 in Europe. That European deficit will seriously hurt the Switch's chances of being the new #1 system globally, and I think it will likely completely prevent it from doing so.

Here's your first problem: You're forgetting RoW.

The PS2 beat the DS because the latter wasn't doing nearly as well as the former did in those regions. But the Switch is already close to surpassing the DS in total sales in those regions and if it continues selling the way it did last year, could even beat the PS2 in total sales over there.

In Europe the Switch will not beat the PS2, that is clear. But from what I heard around here, it's mostly due to the price; most find the Switch simply too expensive for a secondary console (aka a non-Fifa console). A pricecut could do wonders to the sales in Europe if that's true for more than just the people I talked to, and I'm fairly sure it is. As a result, the final tally in Europe will be smaller than you seem to anticipate.

Shadow1980 said:

Regarding Nintendo trying to extend the generation to maximize Switch sales, they can try, but another hardware revision alone won't cut it. Trying to grow sales through price cuts and/or hardware revisions is an effort that yields diminishing returns over time, regardless of the platform. With systems that have had multiple hardware revisions, the revisions released later on have never had a significant long-term effect, though they do often produce good short-term gains. This will likely be the case with the "Switch Pro," especially if it's a higher-priced, higher-end model (like the PS4 Pro or One X).

The thing is, they haven't really tried yet. Mariko was essentially just a die-shrink which resulted in less power draw, but nothing more.

We know NVidia is working on something (they also need new hardware for their Shield line of hardware, which use the same chips as the Switch do), but what exactly will come is still unclear as of now. It doesn't even need to be more expensive, Nintendo surely is at a position where they could drop the price of the current model and bring the new one at the current price instead of releasing a new "pro" at a higher pricetag.

As for the bolded part, Gameboy Color, DS Lite and PS3 slim say you're wrong.

Shadow1980 said:

Nintendo is going to have to break with over two decades of past behavior and actually give serious, meaningful software support to the Switch for at least the next three years. And I'm not talking about just mid-level titles, spin-offs, and remakes/remasters. I'm talking new, original mega-blockbuster franchise titles. 2022 & 2023 are going to need to be as strong as 2017-2019 were in terms of software lineup. If we see things start to slow down next year, that could be a sign that Nintendo is drawing down support for the Switch in preparation for their next console, which isn't implausible considering their track record.

You do know that there are several big hitters in development, right? Metroid Prime 4, Breath of the Wild 2, Splatoon 3, at least another mainline Pokemon title as well as a new remake after this year, and the list goes on on third party titles, whose lack thereof was the weakness of the Wii. And that's just announced titles, who knows what else they will deliver to us in the coming years?



JWeinCom said:
Valdney said:

How does it compare to piracy on the PSP/PS2?

I would say it is worse. Because in the case of the ps2 you would need to download the game and burn it onto a DVD to be able to play the game. People made a lot money selling pirated copies of PS2 games in places like Brazil for example. But in the case of the Switch all you need is a decent sized SD card and you can pretty much download the whole library. It’s bad.



Since 140 million is probably the minimum at this point it has a pretty decent shot right now.

2021: 25/102

2022: 19/121

2023: 12/133

2024: 5/138

2025+: 2/140

Even with this projection I'd say is really pessimistic it still gets to 140 so it just needs to do fairly better than that to beat the PS2 which isn't a massive ask.



Shadow1980 said:

Probably not. It's not impossible (yet), and I would be pleasantly surprised if it did, but I doubt it will happen. Personally, I'm thinking it'll end up somewhere in the 130-140M range.

First off, the PS2 & DS sold about the same globally, with the DS coming up just short of the PS2 (mainly because of Europe and RoW favoring the PS2; the DS came out on top in the U.S. & Japan). If the Switch can't beat the DS globally, it can't beat the PS2. The Switch is trailing the DS in the U.S., Japan, and especially Europe. The only reason it isn't even deeper in the hole against the DS is because of the pandemic (and a temporary assist from Animal Crossing, which may or may not have also benefited from the pandemic). However, it is exceeding the PS2 in Japan, and will likely pass the PS2 before this year is out. In the U.S., the Switch recently pulled just slightly ahead of the PS2, if we exclude the PS2's launch holiday, but it's also worth pointing out that the PS2 continued to sell very well into the later years of its life (19.4M units from 2005 to 2011), which could limit or, further down the road, potentially eliminate whatever lead the Switch gains over it. However, in Europe the Switch isn't selling anywhere close to what the PS2 sold, and is even trailing the PS4 by a significant margin.

On a regional basis, while the Switch is going to beat the PS2 by a very comfortable margin in Japan, and has a decent shot of beating the PS2 in the U.S., it's not going to get anywhere close to the PS2 in Europe. That European deficit will seriously hurt the Switch's chances of being the new #1 system globally, and I think it will likely completely prevent it from doing so.

Regarding Nintendo trying to extend the generation to maximize Switch sales, they can try, but another hardware revision alone won't cut it. Trying to grow sales through price cuts and/or hardware revisions is an effort that yields diminishing returns over time, regardless of the platform. With systems that have had multiple hardware revisions, the revisions released later on have never had a significant long-term effect, though they do often produce good short-term gains. This will likely be the case with the "Switch Pro," especially if it's a higher-priced, higher-end model (like the PS4 Pro or One X).

Nintendo is going to have to break with over two decades of past behavior and actually give serious, meaningful software support to the Switch for at least the next three years. And I'm not talking about just mid-level titles, spin-offs, and remakes/remasters. I'm talking new, original mega-blockbuster franchise titles. 2022 & 2023 are going to need to be as strong as 2017-2019 were in terms of software lineup. If we see things start to slow down next year, that could be a sign that Nintendo is drawing down support for the Switch in preparation for their next console, which isn't implausible considering their track record.

This comment is a bit disingenuous as this year (2021), the switch is outselling the best year of the DS so far. It has sold at least 29mil in the fiscal year 2020-21 as well. That's close to the best year of the DS but less. And if does the same in 2021-22, it has a decent shot at having better legs than the DS. It's neck and neck with the DS, but you are making it seem like the switch currently seems to have no chance of outselling the DS.

And the pandemic is only one factor, the appeal of the switch is there with or without the pandemic. 25mil+ was pretty much always a possibility without the pandemic, maybe even 27mil+. It's hard to judge how much the pandemic helped because on the other hand, people had less discretionary spending as well. There was certainly a net positive effect in terms of sales, but it's not as clear cut and due to that reason alone. Simple fact is it's legs. 2021 is looking like another strong year, maybe even the best console year ever and certainly the top 3. 2022-24 will tell the actual story. It has a much higher chance than your post suggests.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Norion said:

Since 140 million is probably the minimum at this point it has a pretty decent shot right now.

2021: 25/102

2022: 19/121

2023: 12/133

2024: 5/138

2025+: 2/140

Even with this projection I'd say is really pessimistic it still gets to 140 so it just needs to do fairly better than that to beat the PS2 which isn't a massive ask.

Yup especially considering the switch is on lace to have the best year of any console. It's outpacing the best year of the DS. And more realistically:

2021: 29/106

2022: 24/130

2023: 15/145

2024: 6/151

2025+: 2/153

The legs are really important but switch has given us no reason to think it'll suddenly fall off a cliff. I even sorta cut it's legs shorter than I actually think.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also