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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo online 2.0

Ka-pi96 said:
FromDK said:

I hope I didn't get you upset.. that was not my intention.. all is fine :)

Defending anti-consumer business practices does annoy me, yes.

You call Nintendo anti-consumer.... bla bla bla.. If you by that logic also calls the companies that started this praxis and charge even more (MS and later Sony) insanly anti-consumer.. Then ok and thanks for your opinion and how you see it.

But if you somehow feel thats its only Nintendos later and lower "online cut" thats unfair.. then i find it a little funny.. just saying.

But this tread is not about how much Nintendo charge now.. or will charge for a premium+ kind off subscription.. Its about what they can/will offer in a service... key word is service.. like that.

Last edited by FromDK - on 03 February 2021

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Ka-pi96 said:
Peh said:

Nintendo is not running their servers for their own library of games only. Third party games are also part of the online subscription and are running on their server farm. There are exceptions like Fortnite. So every Indy developer who builds a multiplayer game does not have to pay for their own servers hosting online session. They will be added to Nintendo's server farm.

Those servers usually run for years and cost millions of dollars depending on the capacity and contracts they have. It's not just just one server farm at one location. They are around the globe. The games prices can't fully cover the costs needed for maintaining them.

By your logic, World of Warcaft should be also free off additional fees for its online part, since the costs should be fully covered by the games price. That logic is flawed. Nothing is free. 

It also doesn't matter how outdated the tech is. It still produces massive costs that needs to be paid. A migration to a newer tech is also not that simple, since that can take take years to be fully complete. And of course a lot of money that has to come from somewhere.

You need to learn how stuff is running in the background. It's not as simple as you think it is.

Up until level 20 it is free. So perhaps not the best example.

And it's actually your logic that's flawed. Every non-MMO PC game is free to play online, even the majority of the MMOs are actually, so if it's possible to do it without additional charges on PC why isn't it on Switch? It was also possible to do it without additional charges on 3DS, Wii U, DS and Wii.

Nintendo just saw a chance for extra cash and decided to take it. That's all there is to it. You can try and justify it all you want, but it really is just greed. They absolutely don't need to charge for online, and prior to the Switch they didn't.

Before you say my logic is flawed, please take a moment and think where the money is coming from for those "non-MMO PC games that are free to play online" and compare those to Nintendo's online games. Or even better,yet: How do you think a free online game like Fortnite is making all its money to keep their servers online and still make a lot of revenue? Or how does it even get its money if it's free2play? What keeps those Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon servers online all the time? Where is that money coming from?

If Nintendo would see a change for extra cash, they would let you pay for online only and give nothing back in return, no free games, no cloud storage, etc.  Those licenses for 3rd party games on SNES and NES are not free you know. 



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

Ka-pi96 said:
Peh said:

Before you say my logic is flawed, please take a moment and think where the money is coming from for those "non-MMO PC games that are free to play online" and compare those to Nintendo's online games. Or even better,yet: How do you think a free online game like Fortnite is making all its money to keep their servers online and still make a lot of revenue? Or how does it even get its money if it's free2play? What keeps those Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon servers online all the time? Where is that money coming from?

If Nintendo would see a change for extra cash, they would let you pay for online only and give nothing back in return, no free games, no cloud storage, etc.  Those licenses for 3rd party games on SNES and NES are not free you know. 

Why compare apples to oranges? Why not compare to something like Team Sonic Racing instead? Which gets its money from the exact same place as Mario Kart 8 yet is still free to play online on PC.

Or better yet, how about we compare MK8 deluxe to the original MK8 on Wii U? One was free to play online, the other isn't.

You complain about comparing apples and oranges yet you compare apple and oranges. Team Sonic Racing has no free online on Switch. I don't see Mario Kart 8 on PC. Publishers are afraid of adding an online fee for online gaming on PC. Sega has to get their money from somewhere else to afford the servers on PC. 

Online multiplayer on Nintendo games was always a "mixed" experience. It's not perfect nor is it any good. It barely works for games like Mario Kart 8 where a good netcode is not necessary for those online sessions. It just works. It fails on competitive games, though. People are aware of it, so is Nintendo. And from what I've seen is, they are pretty late to the party of good online connectivity and are reconstructing their service as of now. Nevertheless, those online service being free of charge, means they could afford the costs through other means, besides, WiiU was not successful, the userbase was small, not much server capacity was needed. With Switch, it changed. 

I can only assume, that they started reconstructing their online service with the launch of the Switch. With start, I mean started to plan the reconstruction.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

Peh said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Why are you talking as if Nintendo needs to charge anything at all?  

I would understand charge an additional price for a periferic that you need to experience the game (like Ring Fit Adventure), but for online? It's standard for all A and AAA games that have multiplayer. The costs of running the servers must be included as a liability to keeps those games selling and absolutely  nothing you are going to say will change my mind, at least not while Nintendo still selling million and millions multiplayer games each quarter 

Nintendo is not running their servers for their own library of games only. Third party games are also part of the online subscription and are running on their server farm. There are exceptions like Fortnite. So every Indy developer who builds a multiplayer game does not have to pay for their own servers hosting online session. They will be added to Nintendo's server farm.

Those servers usually run for years and cost millions of dollars depending on the capacity and contracts they have. It's not just just one server farm at one location. They are around the globe. The games prices can't fully cover the costs needed for maintaining them.

By your logic, World of Warcaft should be also free off additional fees for its online part, since the costs should be fully covered by the games price. That logic is flawed. Nothing is free. 

It also doesn't matter how outdated the tech is. It still produces massive costs that needs to be paid. A migration to a newer tech is also not that simple, since that can take take years to be fully complete. And of course a lot of money that has to come from somewhere.

You need to learn how stuff is running in the background. It's not as simple as you think it is.

Nintendo is a tech company, it's their responsibility to provide infrastructure to allow users play the games the offer, they are instead asking players to bank not only game development, but also giving them a free money to run the online service they should provide by themselves 

Yes, that money to make servers running should comes from somewhere: From Nintendo's pocket

Of course games price can cover that. Can't believe you truly believe this. Nintendo games break even with few million copies, Nintendo hardware is hardly sold at lost. Nintendo games with sales highly reliant on multiplayer such as Splatoon, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Smash and so on are an evergreen source of income, an income that comes thanks to multiplayer features. Server maintenance should be included as a expense to make those kind of games keep running. If Nintendo accommodate third parties, then charge the third parties for using their infrastructure, not customers. 

Nintendo online is nothing but a way to exploit a fixed source of income (yes, income, because I doubt they really use the money we pay for subscription to keep the servers running, it's just additional profit over products they are already selling)

The only reason this practice is accept is because it becomes the standard in this industry. Microsoft standard, nobody cared. Sony followed, nobody cared. Now Nintendo is doing it, people like you are even defending the practice. Well, at least MS and Sony subscription offer their high end games along with the monthly subscription and they need to pay third parties for that, Nintendo in other hand are giving away 80's games from their own IPs, not even NES and SNES third parties. 



IcaroRibeiro said:
Peh said:

Nintendo is not running their servers for their own library of games only. Third party games are also part of the online subscription and are running on their server farm. There are exceptions like Fortnite. So every Indy developer who builds a multiplayer game does not have to pay for their own servers hosting online session. They will be added to Nintendo's server farm.

Those servers usually run for years and cost millions of dollars depending on the capacity and contracts they have. It's not just just one server farm at one location. They are around the globe. The games prices can't fully cover the costs needed for maintaining them.

By your logic, World of Warcaft should be also free off additional fees for its online part, since the costs should be fully covered by the games price. That logic is flawed. Nothing is free. 

It also doesn't matter how outdated the tech is. It still produces massive costs that needs to be paid. A migration to a newer tech is also not that simple, since that can take take years to be fully complete. And of course a lot of money that has to come from somewhere.

You need to learn how stuff is running in the background. It's not as simple as you think it is.

Nintendo is a tech company, it's their responsibility to provide infrastructure to allow users play the games the offer, they are instead asking players to bank not only game development, but also giving them a free money to run the online service they should provide by themselves 

Yes, that money to make servers running should comes from somewhere: From Nintendo's pocket

Of course games price can cover that. Can't believe you truly believe this. Nintendo games break even with few million copies, Nintendo hardware is hardly sold at lost. Nintendo games with sales highly reliant on multiplayer such as Splatoon, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Smash and so on are an evergreen source of income, an income that comes thanks to multiplayer features. Server maintenance should be included as a expense to make those kind of games keep running. If Nintendo accommodate third parties, then charge the third parties for using their infrastructure, not customers. 

Nintendo online is nothing but a way to exploit a fixed source of income (yes, income, because I doubt they really use the money we pay for subscription to keep the servers running, it's just additional profit over products they are already selling)

The only reason this practice is accept is because it becomes the standard in this industry. Microsoft standard, nobody cared. Sony followed, nobody cared. Now Nintendo is doing it, people like you are even defending the practice. Well, at least MS and Sony subscription offer their high end games along with the monthly subscription and they need to pay third parties for that, Nintendo in other hand are giving away 80's games from their own IPs, not even NES and SNES third parties. 

When did these become Nintendo IP's?

Ninja Gaiden
Ghosts 'n Goblins
Double Dragon
Double Dragon II:  The Revenge
Tecmo Bowl
Gradius
Rygar
Blaster Master
Demon's Crest
Breath of Fire
Breath of Fire 2
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts



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Ka-pi96 said:
Peh said:

You complain about comparing apples and oranges yet you compare apple and oranges. Team Sonic Racing has no free online on Switch. I don't see Mario Kart 8 on PC. Publishers are afraid of adding an online fee for online gaming on PC. Sega has to get their money from somewhere else to afford the servers on PC. 

Online multiplayer on Nintendo games was always a "mixed" experience. It's not perfect nor is it any good. It barely works for games like Mario Kart 8 where a good netcode is not necessary for those online sessions. It just works. It fails on competitive games, though. People are aware of it, so is Nintendo. And from what I've seen is, they are pretty late to the party of good online connectivity and are reconstructing their service as of now. Nevertheless, those online service being free of charge, means they could afford the costs through other means, besides, WiiU was not successful, the userbase was small, not much server capacity was needed. With Switch, it changed. 

I can only assume, that they started reconstructing their online service with the launch of the Switch. With start, I mean started to plan the reconstruction.

I was comparing one place to play games with another place to play them. Nothing wrong with that comparison.

No point continuing this though. Seems pretty obvious you'll just defend any additional charges you have to pay. The rest of us will either just not pay them, or pay them but complain, while you do you.

If you really wanna compare platforms, then you should stop acting intellectual dishonest and add Sony and MS to the mix. 

I don't know how you conclude that, because I am explaining how stuff costs money, I must be defending additional charges of payments. 

Again, main point is, that one guy thinks it is pathetic to charge people for online ignoring that shit costs money. No publisher will invest in a product costing him more or equal money that it needs to produce it. As a publisher, you will let your customers pay for everything. And that includes the online service. Be it via microtransaction, adverisement or an online service fee. There are also other ways. But in the end, the customer pays. That's simple business.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

Mandalore76 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Nintendo is a tech company, it's their responsibility to provide infrastructure to allow users play the games the offer, they are instead asking players to bank not only game development, but also giving them a free money to run the online service they should provide by themselves 

Yes, that money to make servers running should comes from somewhere: From Nintendo's pocket

Of course games price can cover that. Can't believe you truly believe this. Nintendo games break even with few million copies, Nintendo hardware is hardly sold at lost. Nintendo games with sales highly reliant on multiplayer such as Splatoon, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Smash and so on are an evergreen source of income, an income that comes thanks to multiplayer features. Server maintenance should be included as a expense to make those kind of games keep running. If Nintendo accommodate third parties, then charge the third parties for using their infrastructure, not customers. 

Nintendo online is nothing but a way to exploit a fixed source of income (yes, income, because I doubt they really use the money we pay for subscription to keep the servers running, it's just additional profit over products they are already selling)

The only reason this practice is accept is because it becomes the standard in this industry. Microsoft standard, nobody cared. Sony followed, nobody cared. Now Nintendo is doing it, people like you are even defending the practice. Well, at least MS and Sony subscription offer their high end games along with the monthly subscription and they need to pay third parties for that, Nintendo in other hand are giving away 80's games from their own IPs, not even NES and SNES third parties. 

When did these become Nintendo IP's?

Ninja Gaiden
Ghosts 'n Goblins
Double Dragon
Double Dragon II:  The Revenge
Tecmo Bowl
Gradius
Rygar
Blaster Master
Demon's Crest
Breath of Fire
Breath of Fire 2
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts

Fine then. I'm wrong. You can ignore my last sentence 



Mandalore76 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Nintendo is a tech company, it's their responsibility to provide infrastructure to allow users play the games the offer, they are instead asking players to bank not only game development, but also giving them a free money to run the online service they should provide by themselves 

Yes, that money to make servers running should comes from somewhere: From Nintendo's pocket

Of course games price can cover that. Can't believe you truly believe this. Nintendo games break even with few million copies, Nintendo hardware is hardly sold at lost. Nintendo games with sales highly reliant on multiplayer such as Splatoon, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Smash and so on are an evergreen source of income, an income that comes thanks to multiplayer features. Server maintenance should be included as a expense to make those kind of games keep running. If Nintendo accommodate third parties, then charge the third parties for using their infrastructure, not customers. 

Nintendo online is nothing but a way to exploit a fixed source of income (yes, income, because I doubt they really use the money we pay for subscription to keep the servers running, it's just additional profit over products they are already selling)

The only reason this practice is accept is because it becomes the standard in this industry. Microsoft standard, nobody cared. Sony followed, nobody cared. Now Nintendo is doing it, people like you are even defending the practice. Well, at least MS and Sony subscription offer their high end games along with the monthly subscription and they need to pay third parties for that, Nintendo in other hand are giving away 80's games from their own IPs, not even NES and SNES third parties. 

When did these become Nintendo IP's?

Ninja Gaiden
Ghosts 'n Goblins
Double Dragon
Double Dragon II:  The Revenge
Tecmo Bowl
Gradius
Rygar
Blaster Master
Demon's Crest
Breath of Fire
Breath of Fire 2
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts

Yeah, XD

There is no point in arguing further with him. 



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

IcaroRibeiro said:
Peh said:

Yeah, fuck the costs for hardware, electricity, installation / configuration, and maintenance. Screw those service contracts no company needs. We demand everything for FREE! And make sure it works for 80+ million potential customers. While you are at it, I want my virtual console games for free! I paid for them already on the Wii. I don't care what it takes to make them work on the Switch. Just give them to me.

Tell me what's wrong about it. 

Are you forgetting Nintendo already got their money from every single game they sell? Games that sells EXACTLY because of the online multiplayer

Online multiplayer is the reason behind of the sales of so many of its IPs. Remove multiplayer from Splatoon that I doubt it would move over 2 million copies 

Ans then what Nintendo does? Charge an additional fee for people to enjoy how the games were supposed to be played in first place 

This is a much worse practice than DLC or microtransactions 

Games have development costs that need covering they can't cover the cost of maintaining servers especially as development costs grow each gen while needing to provide money for future projects.



Wyrdness said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Are you forgetting Nintendo already got their money from every single game they sell? Games that sells EXACTLY because of the online multiplayer

Online multiplayer is the reason behind of the sales of so many of its IPs. Remove multiplayer from Splatoon that I doubt it would move over 2 million copies 

Ans then what Nintendo does? Charge an additional fee for people to enjoy how the games were supposed to be played in first place 

This is a much worse practice than DLC or microtransactions 

Games have development costs that need covering they can't cover the cost of maintaining servers especially as development costs grow each gen while needing to provide money for future projects.

They can

They just don't need to, as gamers are happy to pay for it and are even defending the companies for charging extra money for playing online

At first both Sony and Nintendo didn't charge for playing online. They changed later when saw the opportunity to get extra cash and embraced it, that's all